Are we allowed to talk about women and/or lesbians?

What do we think students should be doing in LGBT societies

It think it would be a lot simpler if they dropped the T. LGB is all about sexuality, T isn't and as Ada showed some trans ideology is directly opposed to LGB?

I'm sure I saw somewhere on the forum the other day a link to a petition from a lesbian group wishing for lesbians to withdraw as a group from LGBT groups to form their own single group, as their interests were not just becoming lost but were becoming actively in conflict with the interests of other groups.

It was interesting in A.W's manifesto that all focus was on the T aspect of the group and addressing the T issues, and as discussed, the belief was being shared that the G aspect of the group should willingly and actively surrender ground and platform as not deserving of or in need of compared to the T needs. As someone mentioned earlier, it's becoming an alphabet soup and a group of competing, if not conflicting, agendas.

They see threads, and think 'oh, it's about pronouns. That is what they're all talking about these days'.

To answer your question LRD, I don't think they do think that at all. I think they are caught in a difficult position when trying to figure out what is correct and get bogged down with that!

A clear example of the type of bullying that concerned me on the other thread.

Bullying. You truly have no idea what real bullying is.

Did I name anyone? It seems to me there is a lot of derailing on this thread which is precisely why I posted.

There is, I'm afraid, a bit of a flavour of a minority of people trying to exclude opinions that don't accord precisely with their own.

No. There isn't. Hell of a lot of PA bullshit, though.

Except they are not really defending their position Judy they are just arguing for arguings sake. I've learned my lesson, I won't engage further.
Thanks for the link Stewie - nothing there to disabuse me of the presumptions I made and so I'll carry on believing so!

Regardless of different viewpoints, everybody seems to think the deletion message is incorrect. Again.

What is the point of deletion messages if they are just made up shite?

Stevie Thank you for copying the post across.

You say that These are the kinds of conversations that need to be had because misgendering might not be polite but it is simply not an act of violence like death threats and rape. It simply isn't and immediately lying that misgendering is worse than committing acts of violence once again privileges men at the expense of women's safety.

I think this is a really important point. For every transwoman who is "recorded"as a woman it begins to erase women. Violent transwomen get added to female violence statistics, TW CEOs get added to the female CEO statistics, TW in STEM get added to the females in STEM statistics. All of this erases women and helps to hide sex bias.

Can we report for persistent derailing?

A clear example of the type of bullying that concerned me on the other thread. One poster gets attacked, defends her position, gets told off because that is perceived as derailing - time and again. There is, I'm afraid, a bit of a flavour of a minority of people trying to exclude opinions that don't accord precisely with their own.

(That should say rapists not racists.)

Oh good christ. It's like reasoning with a toddler. Could we try a policy of ignore? Just actually ignore the derail and act as if the derailer wasn't present?

I posted this on the other thread but it bears repeating here:

It's worth repeating that Ada is not some extreme outlier within the transgender movement, but, as this site makes clearly, actually representative of a very vocal section who think death threats are reasonable and proportionate responses to women, particularly lesbians, who do not want to have sex with them and those who believe gender is a form of oppression.

Some feminists have had rape and death threats directed at their children. Considering how important the 'We Believe You' campaigns was for members, it's a somewhat hypocritical stance to ban women from talking about male entitlement, violence and hyper masculinity as it pertains to MtF trans people, particularly since research makes it clear they have the same rate of criminality as other men. And that the current surge in numbers of violent women in prisons, particularly in the US & Canada, has a significant statistical correlation to the number of violent men, particularly racists, who transition in prison and then demand to be housed in women's prisons. These are the kinds of conversations that need to be had because misgendering might not be polite but it is simply not an act of violence like death threats and rape. It simply isn't and immediately lying that misgendering is worse than committing acts of violence once again privileges men at the expense of women's safety.

Oh what's the point. You are your own worst enemy here Ego.

I am arguing that we need both, as they serve different grammatical and semantic purposes.

Indeed. Although I believe (?) ego has argued that it is not "they" that is problematic, but the context eg (very clumsily)

Transfolk are scary, they all want to rape and burn women. (Not OK)

Transfolk are people too, they just want to get on and live their lives (Ok)

Using they to refer to an individual is always going to be a problem though as "they referred to women as cuntscum" is correct when referring to the individual "they" of Ada, but not the group "they".

I can be petty too.

Now shall be get back on topic?

Five times in five minutes and a few seconds...

I would suggest that posting three times in five minutes that people are derailing is also derailing. It also comes across as rather petty and foot-stampy.

HQ, could you please let us know why you think everything has to be dominated by discussions like this? Can't there be some way of restricting them, so they don't take over every attempt to discuss misogyny or lesbianism or bisexuality?