Protesting deletions on the thread about trans sex offender

" MN, it is vital that you remain a feminist, brave website. "

^ This.

Don't let us down, MNHQ.

I'd also like to know. IMO though MNHQ knows they fucked up, but they're hardly going to say that. If it happens again then I'm flouncing, toddler tantrum style

In agreement with the posters here. MN, please don't silence us. There are now so few places where women can discuss this issue without being censored. This is affecting us and our hard-won rights. The mainstream left has completely demonised and abandoned radical feminists, and regularly sweeps the huge swathe of evidence of documented harm against women committed by males claiming to be trans under the rug.

Please let us speak, and don't penalise us for stating objective, neutral fact.

www.gofundme.com/WoLF-vs-USA

For anyone who is interested in helping but not sure how

I have a gut feeling MNHQ knows they fucked up.

I posted in another thread why their choice upset me so, but my points are all made so eloquently by others, (looking at you Formal, MrsHathaway, Beyond and many, many more!) there's no need to copy and past how much this idiotic decision distressed me.

I think Mn, that until the word woman or man actually legally changes and the vast majority of people (and scientists) accept and use it such you have to accept the way the word has been used since, well since it's been a word.

Yes to all that.

I'd really like to pop into the brain of the women here who agree that it's transphobic to use actual biology rather than gender-feelz on mn. I really don't understand the level of disconnect that it must take to agree with it.

I too would like to see a MN definition of transphobia.

How on earth is saying that "XY chromosomes = male" worthy of deletion?

If so, could you also give us plenty of warning before "the Earth is not flat" becomes terraphobic?

Thanks.

I think MNHQ need to explain more clearly their definition of transphobia?

I can't help thinking that this whole transgender phenomena that is snowballing at the moment is a result of the extreme gender stereotyping of our society: the negative effects of this on our children sparked the successful Let toys be toys campaign. That campaign was born and grew through discussions on Mumsnet, with the full support of MNHQ.

That MNHQ are now being asked to silence those who continue the discussion is appalling, and that MNHQ are taking so long to dismiss those requests is beyond disappointing. Please MNHQ, be strong and let the discussion go on.

Just to add my voice to the chorus. MN, it is vital that you remain a feminist, brave website.
There are too few places on the web where intelligent reasoned discussion can take place, and too many where women's voices are silenced.
Recently I've noticed just how increasingly prevalent that silencing is. The thread about the guardian for example shows how many people think the media shoves women under the bus to avoid offending men. Religious men, transgender men... Etc

You cannot change your biological sex. It's In every cell in your body, as an xx or XY phenotype (barring rare genetic conditions.) we can and should be railing against gender Expectations- these damage men and women both.

But we cannot deny certain facts:

Transwomen have the same rate of sexual violence against at women as men. That fact alone means we desperately need to debate things like the bathroom issue without resorting to mudslinging and censorship.
Right now, mumsnet is the only place I can think of where this can be discussed and I'm very concerned if voices are ring silenced. I think most MNers are of the rather reasonable stance that transwomen should be safe, able to participate in society and not be subjected to harassment or discrimination but not at the expense of women's safe spaces

Glad you're having a look at the moderation on this one. Be brave. Be fair, don't silence us

Why is it that those who believe 'woman' is an identity get to win?

Because they're usually men.

I do what beyond does. It sounds jarring, but it makes it clear how I feel about it. I'm not being gaslighted.

'He' and 'she' are pronouns relating to the sexes, that's all. They don't refer to identities, a pronoun does not describe a personality type. I don't accept that someone's personal identity overrides and cancels out their biological sex. 'Woman' is not an identity but if I have to use 'she' to refer to a male I am forced to accept this new definition. Why is it that those who believe 'woman' is an identity get to win? Why is it OK to discriminate against those who believe know that men and women are biological sex categories? Do we have to accept that 'woman' is now an identity to post on here? So many questions.

Beyond - could you link (by pm if you prefer)? Would be glad to reinforce reporting such a remark.

Oh even better, there is now a response that moronic is not disabilist.

For fucks sake, I am seriously close to having enough

Bannings and super fast deletions for anything even vaguely suggesting that the emperor has no clothes, yet disabilist slurs like 'moronic' stand for hours. Mn knows where the money lies...

God help anyone learning English as a foreign language ...

Many languages don't distinguish between his/her, preferring instead to mark the gender of the possessed thing.

Additionally, it occurs to me that in German the words for 'his' and 'its' are the same, and the words for 'her' and 'their' are the same. I don't think the entire nation has fallen over yet.

I didn't think I cared about the trans debate. I was cool and right on and "live and let live" because it's easy to be completely tolerant when something has exactly no impact on you whatsoever.

But what I'm recognising from the trans debates in AIBU (etc) is that there is an impact on me and on all women if we redefine what a woman is. I had no idea that the criteria for asserting womanhood had become so loose. I thought you had to have GRS and lengthy hormone treatment.

I didn't realise how much of what I thought was real about gender is totally socially enforced - though I should have, given my interest in human universals and gender definitions being conspicuous by their absence in such lists.

I didn't realise how much it is in men's interests (NAMALT) to reinforce gender inequality. I didn't realise how much it matters to that model to have only two categories of human: Man and Not-Man. I simply hadn't considered why female-only spaces are needed as a shelter from gender inequality.

I believed the statistics about victims of violence at face value: I didn't read the small print that showed that although there's some parity in levels of violence perpetuated against men and women, there's a stark difference in levels of violence perpetuated by men and women. Blinding ourselves to the sources of hateful behaviour in the name of equality is a farce.

Until MNers pointed it out, I had no idea of the possibilities for male club athletes to mimic female biochemistry for a while and bring home medals and world records. There's a lot of talk in the news about doping, but approximately nothing about the specific manipulation of sex hormones for athletic advantage.

And I know that the trans debate doesn't feel as immediate as the FGM debate or the equal pay debate or rape culture - or #BlackLivesMatter or refugees or Zika. But it's creeping up on us and we may lose everything we've gained if we don't debate sensibly before it's too late.

Really? I think that's unlikely. I have seen Cis used a lot in posts.

I would imagine that if someone continually referred to women as cis women and stated they had no intention of stopping it then they would also be banned.

Sooooo, if I don't agree to use third person pronouns will I too be banned?

Will this be a question asked of everyone when they sign up for MN?