Protesting deletions on the thread about trans sex offender

My question is: How can not using "they" to refer to a person be misgendering? "They" is not a gender in the English language

Beyond - I believe MNHQ isn't being prescriptive on the terms that can be used. Guidelines re goadiness & personal attacks are still cast in stone.

delectable deletable offense.

Gotta love AutoCorrect

I see that Kate, but how can you advise one to stick within guidelines whilst saying guidelines are not prescriptive? How can we stick within non-prescriptive guidelines?

Personal attack: I agree, it should not be allowed.

Disrespectful: If this is now a delectable offense, I expect most of AIBU to go up in smoke in the next few hours.

"Our best advice, therefore, is to stay resolutely within the guidelines."

No problemo. And the exact guidelines on transphobia are...?
I rely on this site for a lot of support, I don't want to end up banned for hypothetically refusing to use 'they' at some point in the future. That seems a step beyond a post being "disrespectful, goady or a personal attack" to me?

And on elderly women (alongside disabled too) we have the issue of intimate care. How do you think a 90 year old woman with dementia and physical health problems will feel to have a male doing her intimate care?

Is that Peak Trans I see peeping over the horizon?

Maybe.

I believe transwomen are equal to females, but I do not need to pretend they are the same to do this. I do not have to pretend a tall person is short or a gay person is straight in order to treat them equally.

SO MUCH YES. To act otherwise is a huge retrograde step.

I agree. My mother would not have used a loo or a changing room if there had been the possibility of someone with a penis in there. She would have found it stressful and distressing. Girls and elderly women are more vulnerable than most, but we all sometimes need a space that is women only. You can't tell what someone is feeling. You can, usually, tell their biological sex.

Actually my DD is much younger, that was a hypothetical. Whenever the trans thing comes up no ever mentions girls, unless it's to criticise children for not accepting getting dressed for P.E with a boy. No one talks about the enormous wide spread implications. Like you said, Elderly mother. Should she have to change her swimsuit in front of a man? And why should preteens who are obviously shy and uncomfortable because their bodies are changing, have to take off their shirt in front of a boy in their class? As if he (or she, whatever) wouldn't tell the boys what colour bra so and so was wearing etc. So and so has a weird birthmark. Then sexual bullying begins even younger. All because an adult man likes dresses.

Sorry. Bit of a tangent there!

Yes. Absolutely Cote. And SpecialAgent- I also have an 11 year old dd, and a younger dd (9). Until recently i also had an elderly mother. Trans ideaology as it stands is refusing to accept that women's experiences of male abuse are different from theirs, and that women have valid reasons for needing spaces segregated by sex, rather than by feelings. They are shafting us, and sadly there are young women complicit in that.

" "equal" treatment and "identical" treatment are not the same thing. We can ask that transwomen feel safe but we cannot ask society to pretend transwomen are females to make them feel happy- they are not, they are biologically male. I do not accept the "but it hurts my feelings if you dont let me in the changing room" argument as sufficiently persuasive to perpetuate mass delusions that sex can change or to trump female rights... I believe transwomen are equal to females, but I do not need to pretend they are the same to do this. I do not have to pretend a tall person is short or a gay person is straight in order to treat them equally."

^ This.

Meant to say I think if we tell girls to ignore their instincts and get naked, that's tantamount to abuse. No one will ever convince me it isn't. That would be extremely traumatising. And I'm NOT talking about a predator, just a transwoman with male privilege who doesn't understand/care about the damage.

I know this is childish, you don't have to tell me so. But I feel quite betrayed. I rallied for LBGT rights. I did all I could. And now Trans people are turning around and saying 'piss off, I'm a better woman than you, now let me into the changijng room with the children.

People talk a lot about changing rooms, toilets, rape crisis centres etc,. My personal fear is: Is an 11 year old girl a bigot if she doesn't want to take her bathing suit off if there's a pre-op transwoman in there? Do we force little girls to ignore their survival instincts and get naked so the transperson can feel happy? Yes, women's rights are being eroded and that makes the red mist descend. But when I think about girls, my little DD, I just feel immense fear.

I absolutely agree with your post Iadamanera. I have spoken up for gay rights, and supported equality my whole adult life, and I deeply resent being tagged as a bigot for saying that it is impossible to decide your own sex. I really hate the deletion frenzy on here, in part because the women being silenced are so clearly reasonable, kind and balanced people who support equality, the basic principle of feminism. Deletions just add fuel to the "offensive terf" narrative.

Just adding my voice.
I have been a lawyer for the trans community before. I have many sympathies with their struggles and I believe everyone regardless of gender has the right to be respected equally. I will fight for those rights.
BUT. "equal" treatmemt and "identical" treatment" are not the same thing. We can ask that transwomen feel safe but we cannot ask society to pretend transwomen are females to make them feel happy- they are not, they are biologically male. I do not accept the "but it hurts my feelings if you dont let me in the changing room" argument as sufficiently persuasive to perpetuate mass delusions that sex can change or to trump female rights. the accomodation of transpeople's rights must be done with due regard to others' rights. transwomen and females do not have the same physionomy, vulnerabilities, issues or concerns, regardless of any particular transwoman's desires to have had them. I believe transwomen are equal to females, but I do not need to pretend they are the same to do this. I do not have to pretend a tall person is short or a gay person is straight in order to treat them equally. Transwomen must have equal rights of access to their own safe spaces but they do not have to be the same safe spaces as female safe spaces. To do that is to confuse the rights of the trans community with their desires. It is also to confuse "trans" complexities with "intersex". Not the same either.

MephistoMarley I too would love to hear why your comment re:changing sex has remained deleted. It's getting absolutely ridiculous. Apparently MNHQ know best about science 🙄

X-Post Hermione
Well that's shit. Am I the only one who thinks MNHQ have no clue how to make guidelines for this? I don't blame them. It's nonsense, as we know.

MNHQ, if we don't know what the rules are, how can we know whetheer we're posting something that could get us in strife?

I've messaged HQ to ask them to clarify their position on this. Silence so far ...,

I wonder if hq could explain how the process works for deletions of something as open to interpretation as this is? Are the hqers who are on shift given any specific guidelines or is it all open to interpretation?

I'm thinking that if there are any guidelines, if we could be made aware of them, we'd have more of a clue what is/is not acceptable?

Well HQ that's totally clarified your position