Jack Monroe thread deletion

Robin "One, this is someone who (if I understand rightly) was a MNer for years before becoming any kind of 'figure in the public eye'. So I think that makes a bit of a difference. Two, this is someone who is obviously struggling, and I would say there is a component of misogyny contributing to that struggle, and that's something MN has a reputation for combatting. "

I can't see why the former point makes a difference I'm afraid. Maybe Kate Middleton was a former MNer!

component of misogyny - sorry, not seeing it myself. In fact half the issues I have with trans are rooted in misogyny.

It was a thread based on an article in which a person with well-documented mental health issues mentioned reading a thread about herself on MN.

Regardless of anyone's opinion about her gender identity, surely it's just a bit horrible to frame arguments and comments about trans issues at an individual who is quite likely to read them, especially when they're a bit mentally fragile.

I didn't report it myself but reading last night made me uneasy.

Also dione I think your post may lead some people to believe that the phrase "subhuman fucktoilet" was used about Jack Monroe when it definitely wasn't.

And yet the thread about black lives matter was allowed to stand for ages - I believe that was a thread about real people too just, sadly, not alive anymore.

lore - yes, that's true. But I think there are two issues. One, this is someone who (if I understand rightly) was a MNer for years before becoming any kind of 'figure in the public eye'. So I think that makes a bit of a difference. Two, this is someone who is obviously struggling, and I would say there is a component of misogyny contributing to that struggle, and that's something MN has a reputation for combatting.

I do appreciate it's tricky, though, if people posted in good faith - but critically - without realising there would be a double standard about the deletions.

dione - that phrase was beyond revolting - but that should lead to the post being deleted, not the whole thread?

I didnt comment on the JM thread i did read it I think there was some attacking but if a person comes out and says stuff to a news paper then people are going to comment about that stuff in a newspaper switch Jack Monroe for caitlyn jenner it lasts for pages and pages or maybe Katie Price it just seems deletion is all over the place

Robins "But, again, she seems to have had a rough time and if there's a genuine risk she's actually going to see a thread, then perhaps it's a bit more in the region of personal attack?"

well on a public forum you have to assume that all threads can be potentially be seen by anyone under discussion.

I don't think a pp point on politicians is valid - I think it's their policies or ideas for policies that are being discussed (at least I hope so) but if the reason for this thread deletion is "personal attack" then there are some other threads that need to go.

If not, then maybe MN needs to simply give a clear definition of what they consider to be transphobic and say they will not allow those threads.

I never flounced off from here but I did deregister because of what I considered to be a racist remark from a poster and it got heavily defended by other posters. I didn't report to MN because it's clear to me that I considered it racist but no one else did, so I figured it had to just be me, and after I cooled off, I rejoined.

It seems extraordinary to me that not a word can be uttered on the trans issue when so much prejudice is allowed to stand as opinion. Either it's all censored or none of it is.

Whether the child is reading the thread is irrelevant. It's really shitty to have a go at a small child, especially based on their looks. And it's cowardly, knowing that the child doesn't know it's going on. Really nasty behaviour.

'When a thread starts veering towards a "debate around trans issues" it inevitably becomes a "debate" about trans people's right to exist. '

!!!!!

That's one of the biggest lies I've read on here in 10 years of posting

When a thread starts veering towards a "debate around trans issues" it inevitably becomes a "debate" about trans people's right to exist. That discourse is harmful, and it is right that threads like that should be deleted.

Any poster can push the Report button if they think it crosses a line or breaches MN Talk Guidelines. I assume that more posters reported more posts on the JM thread than do on those about the celebrities and politicians mentioned above.

The combination of personal attacks on JM, minimisation of on line threats, people reporting agressive use of Cis, wanting to gouge other's eyes out, posts stating intent to misgender, and the use of the phrase Subhuman fucktoilets was obviously enough to delete the whole thing.

Read the thread, she's commented above!

I'm annoyed with MN, their stance is all over the shop. You delete a thread about a grown woman choosing to be in the public eye but leave one about a child who hasn't chosen to the in the public eye to stand. Explaination, please.

Sorry, I wrote that before I refreshed.

MrsJ - but isn't it a little different given that a child won't be reading MN?! I grant, I've not seen that thread and there is something really unpleasant about criticising a toddler - so worth pulling on those grounds - but it isn't quite like a PA.

Whilst I love to debate JM as much as the next person, I think the difference is that 'xe' is on MN? Isn't 'xe'...?

The thing about a deleted thread (if it's about you) is that you are going to imagine it was much worse than it actually was!

I always find her an odd one. I've read some of her journalism and found it quite upsetting and offensive, and I would be a bit fed up if MN wouldn't let us discuss that sort of thing. But, again, she seems to have had a rough time and if there's a genuine risk she's actually going to see a thread, then perhaps it's a bit more in the region of personal attack?

Yet a nasty thread about a(Royal) toddler is allowed tostand slagging off a baby mumsnet is weird sometimes

So HQ I trust that you'll be deleting all the other threads that slag off famous people too? Especially in Sleb Twaddle.

I think that Jack was recently at the brink of a nervous breakdown due to so much hatred towards her and threats. I read the thread last night. A lot of points were fair and valid but there were some mean and hurtful things said. If she's a known mumsnetter then this would be hurtful for her to read.

It's good to have open dialogue about the issues discussed, but to focus on one person and name call - that's just mean.

'Ideally she wouldn't be in the public eye'. The only person who puts her in the public eye is Jack Monroe. I agree that she's very vulnerable to shouldn't be, but that's up to her.

At the end of the day, this deletion is saying that some articles in newspapers cannot be discussed. That's a very slippery slope, MN.

Can I just add that I didn't see the original thread, as I was cooking at Jimmys Farm all day, so the removal was nothing to do with me or my 'legal team' (who is actually one man, only ever instructed against the Mail and Katie Hopkins. The day I call him about a Mumsnet thread is the day I pack everything in and myself onto a long holiday.)

I did the article as I was asked to by the Observer. It was supposed to be about the diversity awards, that was the hook. I don't go looking for interviews - they come to me, and I turn down around 95% of them. I appreciate that trans debate sparks heated responses but I have also tried hard to talk about my own experiences and not generalise.

I am going to start a thread where you can all ask what you like and I'll respond and take the criticism on the chin. People here clearly have questions and criticisms and I'm happy to try to answer them without the filter of a sub editor or agenda.

I like Mumsnet. I've never called my lawyer over anything here (that would be heavy handed and expensive) nor even reported a post. I'm generally reasonable and prefer to wade into the battle - as anyone who follows me on Twitter will attest.

Thread coming.

Jack.

Oh, and the thread about Prince George!

Is that still there? A thread where people are lining up to take potshots at a toddler ffs.

Aren't we onto the third Taylor Swift thread now? How are they still going?

And the whole Serena Williams thread stayed for much longer than the JM one.

Is the difference that JM may complain in the press?

It seems like preferential treatment tbh.

OK, MNHQ, will you also delete some other posts about famous people that are 'plain mean'?

Teresa May
Boris Johnson
Prince George
Taylor Swift
Katie Price
Nigel Farage
Kate Middleton

I really hope you do because you wouldn't want anyone to be mean to people in the public eye, right?
This is an ADULT who puts herself in the spotlight and has given an interview discussing issues that for some are quite contentious. Interestingly, the Guardian has allowed comments on the article (even if, gasp, those comments are MEAN).