What is Mumsnets definition of transphobia?

Women have been raped in Canada for lots of reasons...I should know I am a woman who was raped in Canada. I also refuse to be defined by "feels" as you so "intelligently" write it and prefer to be defined by far more critical things like hormones, genetics and psychology. Which, basically, leaves a lot of room for interpretation.

Well, every year people enter Britain's Got Talent even though they really don't. Sometimes the judges are quite kind in telling them that they haven't got what it takes. If the person continues in their delusions or is rude, the judges are rude back

Not saying we should use BGT as some kind of social touchstone however...

Thefitfatty, you do realise that we are discussing more than toilets when we discuss women's spaces. Women have been raped in Canada because refuges couldn't turn away a person claiming to be trans.

Quite frankly I don't care how people present themselves to the world. We need a more open and tolerant society. I do however fail to understand why some trans people can't celebrate their trans status. Trans Women are different t o women and that's ok. Your fight for recognition is different to mine as a woman and it should be celebrated.

I refuse to be defined by feelz, I remain gender critical. I don't agree we have lady brains and boy brains. And I don't believe you can't change biology. If that make me transphobic then so be it.

End of the day gender is a social construct, biology is...biology, a genetics number game at best, and major feminist issues like rape culture and pay differences are based on stereotypes and upbringing. So... Shouldn't we embrace people who feel they don't fit the gender shit show they were born to? Surely embracing transgender is embracing the move toward a unified gender? With equal pay and opportunity?

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder

And if an "ugly" woman did sign up for a beauty competition?

" It is merely fact. " well likewise it might be 'merely fact' that a woman is obese or a bit butch or really ugly but it would be rude to keep shouting about it , wouldnt it?

Well, most obese women don't behave in a way that makes it necessary to point out they are obese.
If an obese woman asked whether she could borrow my clothes, I would point out that they wouldn't fit her, because of the phyiscal reality of her body.

Thing is, that doesn't happen. Likewise with ugly women - they tend not to take part in beauty competitions.

Well, that would certainly be an example of how there are no biological certainties. Thank you for bringing that one up. In the future, When we develop these wonderful doors that only open for specific body parts, we will have to make sure that two feet aren't a requirement (unless we want to start defining the human race as definitely needing two feet and those with one foot are only pretending and trying to invade our two footed space)

You're so right, Thefit, I have a friend who was born without a right foot so this must mean the human race is not bipedal. I hadn't realised.

Yeah, I felt really bad when I realized (due to time zone differences) that I had inadvertently started a thread in the middle of the night, giving MNHQ something unpleasant to wake up...

OP - commenting on someone's "unsuitable attire" at a wedding may well be fat shaming, or misogyny. (Not sure about someone dressed as a scarecrow - there's a thread I'm S&B about someone going to a wedding with a "non-boring" dress code though...)

Depends what you mean by biological "fact". There are people with the xx chromosomes who have no vagina, there are ones with both rudimentary penises and vaginas, there are ones with xxy with full blown penises but no testosterone.

Biology is a wonderful and complicated thing, and which gender (if either) you identify with is even more complicated.

At the end of the day, the only biological certainty is that we all need to pee...

Being a dick to someone purely because they are trans is transphobic, pointing out a biological fact isn't, surely?

I try not to get involved in trans threads, but I do report them when I see them because within a couple of posts they usually have descended into utter horridness.

While I'm primarily attracted to men and I have a vagina i can't say that defines me or that I've ever particularly understood women. If someone born with a penis identifies with my biological gender more than I do, good for them. I don't care who pees or poos next to me because I'm not so fucking foolish as to believe that "women's spaces" are safe. They never have been, they never will be until the day we design doors that will only open for ovaries.

I think, much like is someone were to post that being gay is un-natural or being a particular race is inferior, expressing doubt or disbelief that a trans person is who they say they are is transphobic. Mumsnet either has to come out and fully support trans individuals or not. History will eventually show them if they chose correctly.

Good luck with your surgery, Ego.

🍸🍸🍸 for hq

Oh the man in a dress might have been me and is a misinterpretation of what I meant
I meant it's impossible to tell from looking whether a person in a toilet is a transwoman or a man in a dress with ulterior motives for being there.
I did not mean transwomen are men in dresses.
I do have concerns about women's safety due to various experiences with dangerous men and I wish that it was easier to discuss that without coming across as transphobic. Unfortunately I feel not bring able to discuss it at all is damaging to women as it means society can't find a solution that meets the needs of transwomen and protects all women (transwomen too) in vulnerable situations from male predators.
I would definitely find it helpful to see MNHQs view of transphobia.

(See what I said upthread about people who are trans themselves actually being a lot easier to talk to about it than the randoms who shout "TRANSPHOBIA!!!" at everything :) )

Yes I can see them sitting there with their head in the hands and a large glass of wine going "ffs not again"

Not a job I envy at all

Good luck on your surgery Ego

On the other thread about cis there is a poster who screamed transphobic because women objected to being labelled cis.
Women have a voice and if we dont want to be called bloody cis that is not transphobic. Why do heterosexual women have to put up with all the labels? I dont accept being called cis and I am sick of all this name calling. Wtf is wrong with people

Can I suggest debate on whether trans women are women goes over to another thread, and we keep this one purely for the OP about what constitutes transphobia on MN?

For what it's worth, I would start with being clear what is not transphobia (unless the context makes it a PA or general goadiness). So refusing to acknowledge the term "cis" is not transphobic; refusing to talk about "women's penises" or similar is not transphobic. Expressing discomfort with receiving personal care or sharing intimate spaces with a trans woman is not in itself transphobic, but the way that sentiment is expressed may be.

Phrases like "bloke in a dress" may well be transphobic, depending on context. There may be times when it is appropriate.

Good luck with your surgery Ego