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What is Mumsnets definition of transphobia?

265 replies

TheRealPosieParker · 08/07/2016 13:32

That's it really.

Mine would be hate or violence against trans people. Mine would not be "misgendering" or acknowledging transwomen are male and that they are not women.

OP posts:
speakergirl · 08/07/2016 23:13

We go round in circles never getting an answer to as why transwomen trump women.

Sounds like a game of oppression olympics. What about blacks, jews and the disabled?

poorbuthappy · 08/07/2016 23:09

Tbh it wasn't to anyone in particular.
I think you could pick my comment up and put it in any of the 100 threads a week about it.

We go round in circles never getting an answer to as why transwomen trump women.

GipsyDanger · 08/07/2016 23:09

notwhatiexpected
I believe your husband would be classed as a transvestite, not transsexual.

VashtaNerada · 08/07/2016 23:06

^And no we aren't stopping transwomen from choosing their own pronouns. We are trying to stop transwomen from choosing our pronouns.
Why is that so difficult to understand?^
Was that to me? I think we're saying the same thing poor. There are some posters who want to chose pronouns for others and I don't think that's acceptable, whether it's someone calling a transwoman "he" or calling a biological female "cis" against their wishes. (I think it's okay to make a mistake btw as long as you apologise and then move on. I used to call people cis because it's a label I use myself but now I know some people find it offensive I avoid it when talking about others.) And of course there is no one trans rhetoric or one trans viewpoint, plenty of argument within trans communities on terminology etc, as there is within the feminist community.

IonaMumsnet · 08/07/2016 23:02

Bertrand Er... Where did we say only women should be nice?

Ego - best of luck with the op. Wishing you a speedy recovery.

Notwhatiexpected · 08/07/2016 22:58

Why can't I use "a man in a dress" when I am describing my hairy and intact husband, who is dressed up so he can become physically excited (ahem) by his reflection. He is, isn't he?

Ouriana · 08/07/2016 22:58

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

poorbuthappy · 08/07/2016 22:56

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Egosumquisum · 08/07/2016 22:55

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

BeyondVulvaResistance · 08/07/2016 22:55

Fallon fox really wasn't a good example around these parts...!! Angry

BertrandRussell · 08/07/2016 22:55

No of course I wouldn't. And giving someone the wrong pronoun on purpose is crass and boorish. And already a deletable offence.

But we have to be able to talk about this stuff without vague "well if you don't understand how naughty you've been, I'm certainly not going to tell you" and pathetic, juvenile crap like that.

poorbuthappy · 08/07/2016 22:54

I might with fallon fox but only if I was holding a baseball bat because only then would it be a fair fight.

BeyondVulvaResistance · 08/07/2016 22:53

I might with fallon fox, I am not a fan of a male who gets paid to beat women. But general people, of course I wouldn't.

speakergirl · 08/07/2016 22:50

it isn't about women in particular being nice. It's more about being civil with each other. Would you walk up to Fallon Fox and say 'you are a man, get out of women's MMA?' Of course you wouldn't

DoinItFine · 08/07/2016 22:50

Ego Flowers

Hope the surgery goes well.

Whenever I hear people are having surgery I seem to revert to the 16th century in terms of my dread.

No idea why, I've had some very successful surgery.

Anyway, best of luck chica. Let us know how you get on. :)

BertrandRussell · 08/07/2016 22:49

(That's a rhetorical question, by the way)

BertrandRussell · 08/07/2016 22:46

And why do women have to "be nice"?

BertrandRussell · 08/07/2016 22:46

So what about accusations of transphobia? Like the suggestion that not wanting to use the term "cis" is transphobic?

BeyondVulvaResistance · 08/07/2016 22:45

👍 🍸🍸

won't comment on the female socialisation/"be nice" angle Grin Wink

IonaMumsnet · 08/07/2016 22:42

I think MNHQ probably sit in the corner and swear a lot when another trans thread comes up as they know there are going to be a lot of reports.

You may say that, Ego. But we could not possibly comment...

Evening folks,

As you may or may not know, there have been many and various threads on what constitutes transphobia over the last couple of years on Mumsnet and our policy hasn't really changed in recent months. We don't have a hard and fast 'definition' of what we feel transphobia is. We've always said that obviously it's not something we are experts in, where other forums are, and it's a subject that is in constant flux and developing almost all the time. So we try to apply common sense and perhaps the way we deal with transphobia develops with the discussions about it on threads. For that reason we have encouraged debate as much as possible and it has often been an informative journey.

In general, we apply the same rules as we do to all posts that are reported. We ask that everyone on Mumsnet is respectful in the way they post and of other posters' points of view. If we feel someone is being personally attacked (whether that be in transphobic way, a racist way, or just a general being an asshat way) we will delete it.

In terms of misgendering, which often comes up, we again go by the rule of thumb that if, for example, a celebrity who was male had just come out as a (trans)woman, we wouldn't wave the banhammer at everyone who accidentally said 'he' for a while after. But if we felt they were misgendering deliberately in order to cause offence, we would. Same goes for general discussion about the whole issue. Questions about gender and biology, if they are meant in the spirit of polite and interested discussion, we would leave to stand. Comments about 'blokes in dresses' and that sort of thing, we would take issue with.

In general we just think it's nice to be nice, really.

Hope that explains our position a bit.

VestalVirgin · 08/07/2016 22:40

To me, transphobia is generated because silly men with fetishes are behaving piss poorly, and Transwomen are being confused with them. Without their mysogonistic behaviour, I don't think there would be an issue.

At this point in time, I am not sure we can even say that "transwomen are confused with them". Because "transwoman" is a label used by about any male who has ever felt a desire to wear high heels. And it is often impossible to tell the motivations behind this labeling.
Unless you make gender-surgery the requirement for a true transwoman, there isn't really a way to tell the difference. (And of course, requiring surgery as a condition for access to female spaces will get you labeled as transphobic, too ...)

Besides, one is accused of transphobia just for stating that males are not, and can never become, women. That is not caused by the fetishists, it is just a fact of biology. Humans are not clownfish, and therefore incapable of changing sex.

The fact that many women do not want males, regardless of gender identity, in female spaces, is not only caused by fetishists (though those are certainly one of the main reasons we don't want men in the women's loo), but also by the fact that males are socialised in a certain way, and will behave in a certain way, and their gender identity does not change that.

Ouriana · 08/07/2016 22:39

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

VashtaNerada · 08/07/2016 22:36

Some earlier posters were calling transwomen men Bertrand so I suppose what I meant was more along the lines of "I will respect your right not to be called cis but I also expect you to respect Caitlyn Jenner (or whoever) and not call them by their previous name or pronoun".

BertrandRussell · 08/07/2016 22:28

"You can't demand to not be called cis and at the same time deny trans people's rights to choose their own pronouns"

Who is denying transpeople's right to their own pronouns?

BertrandRussell · 08/07/2016 22:27

You have accused me of transphobia. Please will you specify.