What is Mumsnets definition of transphobia?

I see your point, Vashta. The trans people I know just want to get on with their lives in peace, too.

Unfortunately we can't ignore the activists because they're the ones that the people in power are listening to... Stefonknee Wolscht, Tara Hewitt, Paris Lees, Sophia Brooks. And the CEO of Mermaids, who doesn't even seem clear on the difference between being trans and being gay.

Part of the trouble with us not hearing from 'ordinary' trans people is that so many hide their identity / history (understandably). I've met quite a few trans people through work who I'd never have guessed were trans and of course they're all nice and normal, and supportive of women's rights etc. Some have been through horrendous experiences and are naturally very defensive when they feel the general public assume trans people are sexual predators or whatever. Not saying that people say that here but I do understand why a trans person who's experienced violence, homelessness or whatever rolling their eyes when the same questions get asked about trans people again and again. It's a shame that the louder voices get heard and we rarely get the chance to have a sensible conversation on how we can challenge all forms of discrimination - against women, against trans people, and others.

Yy. I know I find it bloody annoying when people virtue-signal all over disability issues, ignoring the opinion of actual disabled people!!

" As a transwoman, I think it's ok to say what I think as well and the effect on the trans community."

Of course you are. The problem seems to be when non trans-women try to do the same.

It is a great speech :)

I will watch it now, thanks.
(Bloody "Orlando was a false flag" links being recommended on YouTube now though! )

Thanks ego. Funnily enough I often think of you while posting on threads. I'd hate to upset you, you sound like you are doing an amazing job of managing a massive life challenge. And like I said, I don't expect you to be a spokesperson, I know that can be exhausting and depressing.
I'm going to have to think about what I do because my current position isn't workable for how I want to live my life.

Can I ask, ego (sorry, I'm obsessing now!) do you think it is a personal attack to be called transphobic when you have said nothing purposely offensive? To parallel with say, being called homophobic for saying sexual reproduction is 'designed' to be male & female?

When, as you say (I think?) it is used to shut down debate?

I already said what I thought transphobic is, anyone questioning or doubting a persons belief in who they are, the rest has been answering transphobic rhetoric that is so fucking rife on an otherwise open minded site.

If I believe and tell you I am Queen Elizabeth I, should you be required to call me your Majesty and refer to me as such?

This site is an antidote to all the fucking stupidity.

By definition, you're probably not going to hear from non activists as they are probably just getting on with their lives

Fair enough, but then it's surely not surprising the TA views get so much airtime a there is little else.

How do you think someone like me could get better informed about trans issues? Preferably without being called a bigot if I ask questions

You see it on here where the views of some trans activists are used as examples of what trans people think.

I totally agree. Problem is that when new to trans issues you will get told to "educate yourself" and the Internet, where most people research, is very polarised on this issue. It's hard to find trans voices that aren't activist.
I don't know what most trans people think. I don't know if the majority of trans people think they are the same as their identified gender in all the ways that matter or if they think they aren't but desperately want to be.
I'd love it if the trans community had some view about the Danielle Muscato's and Stefonknee's if the world. As it stands the narrative is such that I have to say they are women or be called a bigot. Extreme examples but for people like me who are logical and scientific, it's important to define why these people are/aren't women.
I know trans people aren't a hive mind but I hear very little from non-activists and I want to.
ego I am not saying you need to be a trans spokesperson on here, I know you've had a hard time from both sides of the debate.
That's part of the whole issue though, that even trans people who don't buy into the "transwomen are women, period" line get called transphobic and silenced.
It's a very difficult situation.

The "discussing gender critical" page on Facebook is the only place I've seen debate with representation from both sides and it can be very interesting. It's moderated by a tw who seems to me very sensible and I think is doing a massive service managing that page.

I seem to have also just been told that a direct unfounded allegation of transphobia is not a personal attack.

I just saw that the pee thread has gone
There was nothing (still standing, I know a few posts went early on) that I read in that thread that has not been left up on mn before? And the only personal attacks were from numbername posters. Is there a new choosey-choosey moderator?

In the feminist forums, I think, Lady

Where is the thread questioning the decision to delete the weeing in front of a TW thread please?

"
I just wonder if that makes you reflect when people get annoyed at being labelled as sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic, racist etc on here. Using labels does not help with debate."
Sorry - don't understand this.

I've been called transphobic. Frankly, I don't give a shit.

I'm angry. I'm angry that women have been oppressed for thousands of years. And demanding we be othered by calling us 'cis' is just another way to do it.

I'm angry that female athletes are forced to compete against men.

I'm angry that women have been raped by men because everyone is tripping over themselves to be inclusive.

I don't give a shit how Carl/Carol down the road wants to live her life.

But I'll be damned if I need to be re-labelled so she can do it.

If there needs to be a distinction (and there should be), what's wrong with women and transwomen?

After all, I'm not the one changing.

HQ have deleted the original thread. I have started a new one about the valid female voices who have been essentially deleted.

I just wonder if that makes you reflect when people get annoyed at being labelled as sexist, homophobic, Islamophobic, racist etc on here. Using labels does not help with debate.

It is not the same. People disagreeing with your opinion is not oppression.

Killing people is oppression.

Name one example where a feminist has murdered a transwoman. Because I doubt you can come up with even one, let alone a significant number.

Or stop pretending that this "transphobia" thing is the same as the things you have listed. It is not. Men kill transwomen, yes, but it is not homophobic men you accuse of "transphobia"; in most cases it is women who just want to live their lives in safety who are accused of "transphobia".