Banning the term "cis"

genderqueer femme presenting demigirl

The only reasonable (while polite) response to that is "that's nice, dear."

From Vestal's linked article:

So if you want to call yourself a genderqueer femme presenting demigirl, you go for it. Express that identity however you like. Have fun with it. A problem emerges only when you start making political claims on the basis of that label – when you start demanding that others call themselves cisgender, because you require there to be a bunch of conventional binary cis people for you to define yourself against; and when you insist that these cis people have structural advantage and political privilege over you, because they are socially read as the conformist binary people, while nobody really understands just how complex and luminous and multifaceted and unique your gender identity is. To call yourself non-binary or genderfluid while demanding that others call themselves cisgender is to insist that the vast majority of humans must stay in their boxes, because you identify as boxless.

YYYY.

I just found this very interesting article on gender:

aeon.co/essays/the-idea-that-gender-is-a-spectrum-is-a-new-gender-prison

Really interesting. Might help some of the people here who don't get why we consider cis an insult.

Late, sorry.

Show all children that they don't have to choose whether to be masculine or feminine - but don't tell them they can change their biological sex because they cannot.

I think gender identity is a horribly complicated area but I'm leaning towards this point of view really.

I think it's far, far more likely that "gender is a bullshit construct" than that "gender is actually real except that if your lived experience of gender doesn't match your genetic sex you can hormonally and surgically alter your physical sex characteristics to match your feelings".

If MNHQ is to be consistent, all misgendering must be considered unacceptable and that includes using "cis" to describe a person who does not accept that label.

Adding "cis" to the list of banned words (currently largely populated with disablist and racist slurs) would suggest taking sides before the argument is complete. As much as I'd like them to declare for gender critical, I can see why they wouldn't.

As I said to you yesterday...

Door. Hit. Way out.

I agree it's very similar to arguing with people of faith. The position that everyone who 'feels like' a wo/man is one, regardless of physical facts, is a position of belief. It is not susceptible to material evidence.

In most ways, it's a matter of perspective. One's comprehension of "woman" or "gender" is the starting point; the two sides disagree on it. A similar thing happens when I talk to religious followers. Our respective understanding of things like "natural forces" and "spirituality" are so different that it's not really possible for either side to change the other's mind about whether god exists.

It's all fine; we can have different beliefs - until one side imposes its beliefs on the other. If a religion gained such traction in the UK, insisting that women must defer to men and saying only faithful women deserve the name "women" - then I'd have a huge problem and would fight it. Same as if atheists did the same to religious women; they'd fight hard.

The problem here isn't really the difference in perspective. We all understand that trans people exist and we respect their rights to express their gender as they wish. The problem is that women feel our rights and our name are being eroded by transwomen.

... And they are being eroded. The give & take's out of balance. There definitely is a large body of transwomen who don't insist on eroding women's rights - and they aren't the ones we're fighting. At present, transwomen who want to impose on women are gaining traction.

This is where the feminist issue lies: not in whether transwomen deserve respect, but in whether they should be allowed to impose their beliefs on everyone else.

Yes louse you know the ones that you're talking to and being so rude to, I was born a woman and it really is as simple as that. None of this navel gazing shit .You're a nasty piece of work. Your previous posts show that. You pick one bit out of a post and ignore the bits that suit you. You're a joke and not a very funny one at that.

Thought you were off, Louw? Don't let us stop you.

Real actual woman pmsl! Rightio love!

lou88 you've got a bloody nerve . Bullshit apologies won't wash. Calling everyone bitches and the "more woman"' comment got your utter shit deleted. Sticking up for transgenders by insulting ,belittling and degrading real actual women. Classy.

I wholeheartedly approve of your decision if it means I don't have to read any of your ill-thought through posts.

Me too, me too.

BertrandRussell What ever you all are exactly what I said you were and my apoligy is retracted. People need to grow the hell up! Goodbye!

"venusinscorpio Because I still up for transgender's?!! Point is right there isn't really!"

Nope. Because you call people bitches. And now take cheap shots at feminists.

Incidentally, I'm not sure "transgenders"is a particularly respectful term.......

Stick up'

venusinscorpio Because I still up for transgender's?!! Point is right there isn't really!

My point (originally on the thread) was my post was deleted despite there being far worse posts on there, which have since been taken down also

Well I've learnt one lesson - stay the hell away from the feminist's!

I wholeheartedly approve of your decision if it means I don't have to read any of your ill-thought through posts.

The point this, Louw, you are trying to make people believe that you were deleted for defending trams people from all us TERFs. You weren't. You were deleted for calling everyone bitches!

So here you go again, have you never heard of the term 'more of a man then he'll ever be' it's about being more 'grown up' I'm not re-writing history I wanted to explain why I said about being bitches and apologise. I've done that and your still making digs - purely because I have a different view point you try and belittle me, get me defensive and then I'm the one on the wrong for biting!
Well I've learnt one lesson - stay the hell away from the feminist's!

Oh wait. There are headings of womanyness? Peak trans klaxon!!!!

Did we ever get an explanation of how this friend was more of a woman than we'll ever be?

Perhaps this friend is so obese that we cannot ever hope to achieve this, um, quantity of body mass. That's the only way "more of a woman" makes any sense.

Still doesn't make someone who is not a woman to begin with more of a woman. A ton of apples is not more pears than a kilogram of pears, after all.

More of a woman...by not being a woman at all 😳

Did we ever get an explanation of how this friend was more of a woman than we'll ever be?

"I replied to a thread sticking up for transgender people and MY post got deleted despite people posting very disrespect things about men to female transgender!"

Your post where you called everyone bitches and that your trains friend was more of a woman than we'll ever be? That post?

You know, whoever reported that post will have it quoted in their email inbox...
As you're rewriting history...