MN - too lenient on hate speech at present

"beyond the pale" = AFAIK refers to when the English only had control of a few parts of Ireland, including Dublin and the English ruled the area around Dublin was called the pale while beyond the pale was dangerous for the English and their allies.

Don't we find sometimes that whole threads get hijacked because of one comment that someone has made? Ie, the beetroot thread where the op said she'd given her husband 2 small pieces and he'd yelled at her.
It went:
He's a dick
He's a dick
He's a dick
Maybe he's got sensory issues with food?
He's never mentioned them before, he's a dick
Now you're being disablist

In that instance, is it really a case of calling it? Or do we just have to take a sensible approach that not every single instance is an ism. I'm not belittling the genuine times that agism / racism / disablism occurs but deleting the obvious hate speech ones is good - but those on the fine line, where do MNHQ stand? What is good debate and what is too far?

Is using the phrase "beyond the pale" grounds for being deleted? Is use of the word idiot? We could go with some guidelines about exactly what would and wouldn't be tolerated, because I'm sure not everyone knows the origins of all words and don't want to be accused of hate speech; and as suggested above, reported to the police

Well I find trans women referring to themselves as women offensive. It cheapens my biological reality.

MNHQ say it's fine to refer to all trans women as men. It's only singling out individuals that's not allowed on here. You're only allowed to insult a whole group

Hardly. They simply allow a discussion to be had. And it's important because right now the transnarrative has me matching a definition of 'non-man' rather than 'woman'. MNHQ allow women to say fuck that to the transnarrative and don't mistake it for women saying fuck you to people who are trans. Big difference. About as big a difference as there is between women who have prostate glands and those who have ovaries.

too quick - we can't legislate against that but I add it to my spreadsheet

I have seen a lot of disabilist and ageist posts on mumsnet - some get zapped but ageist posts tend not to. I also see a lot of posts that are rude beyond the viperish, assertiveness we love here - it's not hate speech so much as nastiness but we can't legislate against tha

Aaaand there it is. One persons hate speech is another persons biological fact.

From Report it.com

"Hate crimes are any crimes that are targeted at a person because of hostility or prejudice towards that person’s:

disability
race or ethnicity
religion or belief
sexual orientation
transgender identity

This can be committed against a person or property.

A victim does not have to be a member of the group at which the hostility is targeted. In fact, anyone could be a victim of a hate crime."

and

"If a person is bullied as a result of their disability, race, religion, sexual orientation or transgender identity, this is also dealt with either as a hate crime or non-crime hate incident. Bullying could include name-calling , being spat at or kicked, or having your things taken or damaged."

MNHQ say it's fine to refer to all trans women as men. It's only singling out individuals that's not allowed on here. You're only allowed to insult a whole group.

"Part of the difficulty with 'hate speech' is that people seem to have different definitions of what constitutes 'hate speech' not just as a criminal offence but also as a sort of wider orthodoxy"

I don't know about the legal definition of hate speech, but when a social group is nagatively stereotyped, I am repulsed. No recently, but I have seen threads where nearly everyone has a go at travellers and none of them have been deleted. I didn't even open up the Cologne thread because I felt sure my blood pressure would not be able to cope with it.

Oh, and if MNHQ reads this thread - no need at all to apologise for mass mailings when there's lots of reports on the same thing. I'm sure we'd all rather you dealt with these things as efficiently as possible - and pleased that others have reported!

I got mail within 15 mins of my report (which others had also reported) to say the thread was deleted and the user banned. Well done MN!

I'm not saying it doesn't exist in saying that mumsnet seems to cope well as a self policing community.

Part of the difficulty with 'hate speech' is that people seem to have different definitions of what constitutes 'hate speech' not just as a criminal offence but also as a sort of wider orthodoxy.

Of course there is hate speech on here. Ridiculous to suggest otherwise. Many trolls join and post nothing but hate speech.

'Well, if I haven't seen it neither have you' doesn't wash tbh.

I have seen it. Many times.

I've just reported a new thread (no posts on it yet, just the OP) which I think is racist hate speech against the Welsh.

Salisbury does exist. It's on te ordnance survey map. It has a cathedral.

...

Also, if anyone can't discuss the positive and negative ramifications of immigration and increased trans* visibility without crossing over into hate speech, that is on them as a human being who can't conduct themselves properly in debate.

Salisbury does exist. It's on te ordnance survey map. It has a cathedral.

My experience is that posters are usually scrambling over each other to report, display liberal
Credentials/sociology ALevel etc

Perhaps what might be useful is an explicit statement from mumsnet about hate speech - I suppose they need to define that terms. my understanding as that it about threats to cause harm to members of vulnerable groups or supporting and/or promotion of organisations that threaten/do cause harm to people. Perhaps I'm wrong. Perhaps the terms are wider.

If suggesting that Brexit was a vote by the old at the expense of the young is hate speech, then I'm guilty.

No, Chip, I'm saying I've fricking seen it, hence my opinionated self on this thread, and I am not going to let you tell me Salisbury doesn't exist because you haven't been there!