Anti-Religious Trolling On Mumsnet

Bertrand - no, it's more like My race is every bit as valid as yours.
Allow me to discuss topics that are pertinent to me without you stomping in saying shut up this has nothing to do with me
Generic you, etc.

Thank you for starting this thread Dione.

It's not about owning a thread. It's about other posters deliberately trying to close down certain topics because they think they don't belong on MN.

I actually think certain posters don't think certain people belong on MN. I've been on several threads related to Islam where certain posters have been very grumpy indeed about actual Muslim women posting on there too. We are apparently brainwashed and should STFU.

Likewise I've seen many threads where the counter to any point a Christian makes is to call them stupid.

It's great to hear that other people think the use of terms like "sky fairy" are childish.

Finally, people can stamp their feet about religion not needing to be a protected characteristic all they want, but that doesn't change the law as it stands and MN should respect that.

But it doesn't make it right Silver. And I would hope in those cases the deliberately trolling posts were deleted.

I don't think it's difficult to tell GFs from posters who are genuinely contributing.

Couch I have certainly see something similar on Cat threads, when a cat was killed by someone's dog in the dog owner's garden it attracted a lot of vilification about cats and their owners..

Yes, I do agree that that particular thread isn't the best example actually. I just remembered a couple of comments on there. And certainly a child's neurology should be checked out if they are seeing things. The threads I linked to further down are a better example because they are more everyday topics. Ie, which church would suit me, what can I do to help my daughters faith etc.

Sorry I thought the awful one about a child purporting to seeing ghosts and the OP seeking advice about exorcism was yours. It's late and I was confused.

Seriously that was a clear case where the 'arses' challenging a worrying and damaging belief were very legitimate in raising their concerns about the welfare of the child even though the OP wanted her beliefs validated.

This would be no different to a parent in relationships wanted to validate her reasons for letting her child still see an abusive relative asking for suggestions on how she could make that happen. In both cases the belief and view of the OP is (rightly IMHO) considered wrong and dangerous, therefore telling people not to comment if they disagree with the basic premise of the thread is not reasonable.

It's not about owning a thread. It's about other posters deliberately trying to close down certain topics because they think they don't belong on MN. The thread I started is still running and has managed to accommodate people of faith and atheists.

The problem is more akin to going on to a dog thread and saying not only I hate dogs but I disagree completely with the idea of owning pets. And people engage with that but then I repeat it over and over again whilst ramping up the insults to all pet owners. That's not debate. It's not discussion. It's about trying to close discussion down. And it's quite easy to identify by the frequency of posting and the frequency of insults.

And yy the feminist boards are an excellent example but there are differences because often the thread is a debate (not a chat or support) and when they are trolled by MRAs other posters are usually quick to point it out. There's not an inherent assumption that it's fine for MRAs to troll the boards. Why should there be an inherent assumption that posters can troll religious threads?

What? None of the threads I linked to were about my daughter. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

I think that of course everyone should be able to join a discussion but they shouldn't just do so specifically to vandalise the discussion and to prevent the OP from getting the advice they were seeking. It has happened elsewhere too - on the SN board about a specific therapy for example.

Nobody owns a thread, no. But why behave like a twat just for the hell of it and to stop people from having a discussion that they want to have?

But why cannot the people who have a different view not join in a discussion. I simply don't agree that on an open forum only certain people with specific views are permitted to join in a 'discussion'

Have you actually read the linked threads I used as examples?

Yes. I was horrified by your thread about your daughter, but not for the reasons you seem to be referring to

I don't think it should be allowed on any topic, no. People should behave decently and as if they were talking to someone in RL as the MN guidelines state. I guess I am irritated by what goes on in the religion topic because every single time I've posted a thread on there (which isn't often) someone jumps on and tries to change the point of my thread with their 'oh let's not even discuss this nonsense' approach.

I have other problems with MN like people disagreeing automatically on AIBU because they find it entertaining to watch a fight unfold. The site has changed very much from when I joined in 2004. It's bigger and it is bound to I suppose. It's still a very useful pool of information as far as I'm concerned.

SilverBirchWithout, the examples you cite would of course be very useful contributions to a thread. But you are right, there are always arses. There is a thread where someone is asking how to stop drinking and some cruel bitch started writing about how life is boring without a drink, etc. etc. She did get deleted though.

But Lottie there are arses all over MN doing that sort of thing. Have you ever read the trans or feminism threads? Why do you feel threads about religion should be treated any differently?

On other threads such comments are either very obviously ignored or the posters taken to task by other posters or reported if they break the rules.

The examples you cite are not derailing though are they SB? There are lots of threads on that board which invite debate but on others it's clear that there is an agenda from some to stop the OP from getting the advice they asked for.

It's more like going on to a nice thread about baking and shouting: "Don't fucking do baking, you misguided twats! Are you stuck in the fifties, or what? Get a grip and do something meaningful!" Which is actually how I feel about baking. But I never say it.

I do think there is an unwritten etiquette for specific boards.

I wouldn't run into The Dog House generally and say I hate dogs, but I would comment if someone was moaning about a neighbour who was upset about the poster's dog crapping on their lawn.

In the same way if someone was asking for a suitable prayer for a specific occasion I wouldn't suggest that they were misguided but if they asked what to do when talking about their beliefs to a non- believing friend I would feel OK to comment.

This is an open forum therefore everyone's opinion is equally valid and permissible.

It's not just Lottie, and not just Dione. It's very evident.

My perennial understanding is that derailing a thread with your own agenda is, at best, very rude indeed. If it's done very aggressively, then surely that's a breach of the rules. And it does close down the debate which the OP intended to start.

However, if things have changed, MNHQ need to tell us. I'm an atheist btw, so no actual Christian axe to grind.

Nobody owns a thread, no. But why behave like a twat just for the hell of it and to stop people from having a discussion that they want to have?

Have you actually read the linked threads I used as examples?

Q: 'do believers actually hear the voice of God?' (OP wants to hear from believers)
A: 'no, of course not - if you hear God, you're psychotic'

Q: 'how do I help my religious dd?'

A ' stop indoctrinating her with nonsense'

It would be exactly the same as if I were to start a thread asking which formula you would recommend and someone said 'oh well you shouldn't be using formula in the first place'

Is it really that difficult to understand ??

No, I think I can guarantee that actually it's not just me. I've seen this going on for years on that board.

I agree Atenco.

Yes it is but my understanding is that the OP is talking generally about regular derailing in the P&R board

No I think that's just you Lottie

I'm not sure I get this angst about derailing any thread. As far as I know there are no specific rules about staying on topic with the original exact points the OP posts. Discussions progress and evolve, some of the best threads I've read on MN have gone far from the original post.

It would be interesting to know what others think about the etiquette of ownership of threads.

That was to Sliver Birch

In my opinion the trouble with some religious people is that they do think it's OK to give atheists a dressing down about needing to respect their beliefs whilst at the same time not respecting our beliefs and wishes to not have theirs foisted upon us

First I don't think anyone here is talking about atheists, per se. Secondly I personally would deal with my problems by first praying for guidance and I'm sure people of all faiths do the same, but I have never ever given that advice or seen anyone else give that advice, because nobody is trying foist their beliefs on anyone.

Yes, but as I've said before on this thread numerous times, just because you're not breaking the rules does not mean that you're behaving decently or in the spirit of mumsnet.

If someone starts a thread and is looking for advice, NOT a debate, then it is the decent thing to start a thread about it inviting debate. To refuse to do so is deliberately rude. We all usually apologise for hijacking a thread which can happen inadvertently. This, OTOH is often deliberate.

Certainly it was your right to post a thread like anyone else. And like any thread you cannot control what people say on it, unless they are explicitly breaking The MN's Rules.

People say all sorts of things on threads such as LTB over a minor disagreement. Just because you create a thread you cannot control the responses. 'Tis the nature of Internet forums.