Anti-Religious Trolling On Mumsnet

"Can we talk about the issue of faith school admissions policies?"

There have been countless, countless threads on that very topic.

This is the first thread I've seen on site stuff that specifically addresses the sky fairy name calling, etc and yet you want to turn this thread into yet another one bemoaning the lack of a secular society.

You've had that thread already. This is about another subject, which the OP and rather a few others think is important.

If you don't think this subject is important enough, you are free to post on another thread.

Betrand, I've always thought that that is because the settlement was a political one, could be changed, by politics, but neither of the major parties is prepared to take it on, or has been, perhaps JC might. Wonder if Sturgeon would?

However because I live in the UK, Chrietianity is the religion that impacts on my life, and which holds a position of privilege, so I have practical as well as philosophical objections.

I find it very interesting that.Chirsitans very rarely want to address the real debate that has to he had about privilege, but choose to focus on the few people who say disobliging things "Can we talk about the issue of faith school admissions policies?" "No- there's this much more important issue to fill a thread with- somebody called my god my imaginary friend!"

"Would you say it was ok if someone talked with disain about, say, islam including 'sky fairies' and other terms or do you have any equality and diversity awareness and realise it would show intolerance?"

I talk about all religions in exactly the same way. I am more knowledgable about Christianity than any other so I cargo into more detail, but I have exactly the same feelings for them all.

The wrong colour? Do you mean the centurions daughter? The occupying forces... But he did heal her....

Judge as applied to people...you, me, the op, etc.

there's a great poem called the light if Asia, and if you read about the Buddha you find this attitude there too, compassion. It's interesting that the same threads around compassion tend to come through at broadly the same period of development. It's one of the things I love about Islam, that it is specific that God is merciful, compassionate. We , just, as humans fail to live up to that.

Oh, easily. But I am not saying, despite what silver birch appears to think , that others would not come to the same decisions without my religion. I am sure they would and they would do it better . I just need it to remind myself to behave with love and charity and forbearance and reasonable self sacrifice, to say sorry. You need to understand that I am not a nice person but v egocentric.

As needmoresleep knows, I have a difficult home life. Without my religion I would have given up even more on my marriage vows. I would undoubtedly be a worse less loving parent, even than I am now, which isn't very good. I would have ignored the demands of my mother. I would instead be either dead or much much more successful, and that isn't wishful thinking, I've had to sacrifice a lot for my family. And in some ways I might be happier, certainly if I were dead, I don't know, but would have left, I think, a trail of destruction in my family and professionally too.

As I say, the person of morals but no religion could equally well have come to these decisions, or not, but I am sure if they did they would have done them with better grace! I think my decisions were on balance right, but it's certainly arguable. What I do know is that I have looked at the decisions in three ways, analytically, morally, with the religious addition. The morals and religion usually have the same outcome. But I know that I personally might not have followed that decision were it not for my religion. That just makes me weak, morally, I agree. But my religion reminds me to love my neighbour as myself and I personally need that reminder. But my friend x, atheist, doesn't need that reminder. She us one if the most moral people I know. Always has been. Ever since she was 12. I love and admire her but can't emulate her.

Here endeth the very boring essay.

And said judge not that ye be not judged.

Does God judge?

How did you decide Jesus was something special without judging it in some way?

Jesus himself condemned the holier than thou attitudes of his time. And said judge not that ye be not judged.

And yet her also got sniffy about healing the child of someone who was the wrong colour.

don't quite get your knitting analogy.

Earlier on in the day, long before I'd cracked open the first beer, someone likened a non-Christian getting uppity about religion with someone not interested in dogs wading into a dog lovers thread. I have used the knitting example to highlight how such a comparison falls down when Christianity is inherent and unavoidable in daily life to one degree or another and I don't know anyone who claims that dog ownership is necessary to make the best choices and that the creator of the world thinks we should all own dogs.

(I am totally going to dream about dogs knitting in the House of Lords tonight.)

Silver birch, not, that was not my implication nor did I intend that you should infer that.

That's the sort of contemptuous sweeping attitude / statement I deal with day and daily. I don't know you, you are not my business. Equally, you don't know me. Nor am I yours. So Why should you assume I think that? ( Sorry, but you have really riled me. )You will find a common thread of humility through many of the world religions, from Buddhism to the Sufi Mystics, the orthodox and desert fathers. Jesus himself condemned the holier than thou attitudes of his time. And said judge not that ye be not judged.

And if it were a choice between visiting an elderly or sick person or going to church. I'd do the former too. I'd try to do both but if I couldn't, love to the person is far more important imv. And would be to many people of many religions as well as to those of none but who might have some other competing commitment.

Orlando can you think of a specific example of a scenario where you'd be nastier if you didn't nominally nod to the cultural religion of our society? (Assuming it is Christianity you refer to).

on a sort of pascal line

Could you clarify what you mean by that?

as Evelyn Waugh said, I'd be an even nastier person without it

Now that is an interesting thought and gets to the route of my personal issue with organised religion and beliefs.

With that thought, there is an underlying assumption that those of us who live our lives without a faith are somehow not as kind, caring or altruistic as those with.

I can understand why some people need and wish to have a faith, but do not for one moment think you are any better than me. Which is exactly what the 3pm threads felt like to this heathen who just happened to be using a precious day off visiting an elderly relative rather than reflect on the untimely death of someone circa 2,000 years ago.

I think people sing the national anthem at certain occasions so no, not the same clearly but similar.

Adults don't tell children that singing the national anthem is a supernatural event and a way of communicating with an all powerful deity. Adults don't tell children that singing the national anthem is the best way to solve problems.

I was referring to your complaints about bishops in the house of Lords,*

I brought up the oft cited HoL scenario to demonstrate how Christianity can not be seen as simply a hobby and that Christianity is enshrined in our law and culture in a way that knitting isn't.

Imagine this: I could spend my life avoiding people knitting. It wouldn't be so hard. But avoiding state ordained knitting isn't possible. Even if I home school my dc the laws of our land are yay or nayed in a chamber where a certain amount of seats have to be occupied by knitters. It doesn't matter if they have great ideas about poverty or discrimination. If they don't knit they have less chance of being in the HoL. Also, If I do send my kids to school they will sit through assemblies about the supernatural benefits of knitting. Would that seem fair to you?

(Disclaimer. I'm not derailing anymore than anyone else)

Headinhands, no I don't. .

Some people's faith gives them joy, confidence, security. I don't have that, all I have is doubt and determination to do my best on a sort of Pascal line, whatever that is. But It's part of me as I have come to recognise, rather to my irritation. Tried to get rid of it and failed.

There's quite a strong tradition of doubters, right from the beginning, and people like Therese of Lisieux, tough battleaxe that she was, puts it across well. ( she may have been physically frail, but the little flower was in my view little bindweed or little aconite.)

And, rather as Evelyn Waugh said, I'd be an even nastier person without it.

But ever since I was little my best friends have come from a variety of religions or none. And ever since we were old enough to argue we have thrashed these questions out. But in a spirit of support and friendliness and a willingness to let the other person continue in his/ her path.

Totally agree with you OP
I have just read a thread whereby a poster mocks the death of Jesus.
I am no shrinking violet and I accept that people have different views on religion but I just felt that some of the posts are inappropriate, particularly as for Christians this is an important time.

by being arrogant/condescending and rude themselves? 

It's unfortunate that some come across as arrogant on either/all aspects of any debate. What's important is to assess their reasoning. It could be that the person with the best, 'nearest to right' opinion sounds like an arse, whereas the nicest poster hasn't thought through their stance. I wouldn't want people to judge a message purely by the tone. Ideally we would deliver our thoughts calmly so you have more chance of not pissing people off and having your position appreciated.

As relevant as saying why do we have those annoying royals

But that wouldn't be relevant. There's no law that say my kids need to spend a certain amount of time at school being told how the royal family can grant them eternal life if they pray to them.

My use of the Hol was entirely valid because it shows that you can't compare an optional hobby to Christianity. My taxes don't fund schools run by knitters who give preference to the children of knitters over non-knitters. They even give priority to children of crocheters ahead of my non-knitting non-crocheting children. I could pretend to be a knitter by going along to knitting club but I shouldn't have to just to have an equal chance at my children attending my nearest school which I help fund.

I'm not the one in a playground