Anti-Religious Trolling On Mumsnet

Oh for goodness sake

I think purposeful derailment, in order to shut down discussion or say things without being challenged, is different to the occasional diversion or natural evolution of a thread topic. People get caught between ignoring the poster who is attempting to derail or defending their position - the discussion often gets heated as posters are frustrated. People would report in this situation but they wouldn't have to if digression was more well intended and welcome. I think the difference would usually be quite clear cut. Add a 'warning' element before deletions occur, gives added opportunity to discuss what was requested or decamp to a new thread.

pearl potentially derailment could be moderated in all topics, the potential to use it as a means to say things without being challenged or to shut down a particular topic of discussion, is the same for any discussion board. However derailment does seem to be particularly pertinent to religious threads as it has been observed the OP's question is rarely discussed without people coming on to globally challenge Christian belief, which can shut down discussion

Bertrand I think most moderation has a subjective element, this would be no different. Posters could report for what they see as an attempt at derailment.

Exactly bertrand.

So someone starts a thread about how to find a good childminder, someone mentions the added difficulty of childcare and single parents, then a few pages about government legislation and time off work for parents, then a little chat about working in a nursery, should all these posts be banned?
Mumsnet would be a very boring place if discussions were to tightly monitored.

I have absolutely no idea how you could moderate "derailing". It would be so incredibly subjective.

I think some of the best discussions happen as the result of a derailment.

capsium are you suggesting that all threads should be moderated if derailed or just the religious ones?

Oh yes, pearl, you thought moderating derailments was 'unfair' , 'unclear' and 'unworkable' but unfortunately you didn't elaborate. If you had gone into greater detail, perhaps it would help in working out some of the issues raised in the OP.

I have given my view.

pearlylum so you don't want to discuss the question the OP asked, either?

I think it's fair game.

I am told by christians that I am living in sin as I am not married, that I am a sinner, that my babies were born with sin, that I will burn in hell when I die as I am not a christian.

I think a reference to a sky fairy pales into insignificance when compared to that.

So back to the question laid out in the OP, has anyone got anything to comment? Should MN moderate persistent attempts to derail? How should this operate?......

"Since when do people belittle those without faith?"

We seem to be going round in circles. But I have been told several times that I can have no moral compass or charitable instincts because I have no religion. And as for "belittling"- you just try questioning Christian privilege and see the flood of "suck it up" "it's not problem" "you could always go to church" type comments you generate!

Since when do people belittle those without faith?

Just in support (I'm half way through reading the thread), I regularly got told that I shouldn't be allowed to work and that my place on this Earth was merely to procreate. And this was from Christians. If we entered into discussion (as I'd had enough of being polite after the above comment) and I asked a question they were unable to answer, for example, how did Noah get two of every animal into the Ark, I was met with a patronising smile and the phrase "God moves into mysterious ways" was trotted out.

On the other side, a Muslim gentleman I worked with was patience personified and spent a great deal of time explaining his beliefs. We may not have agreed, but it was certainly respectful.

head finally, asking about how moderation of derailment should work!

No, not just about religion, derailment could be be used as an opportunity to provide an unchallenged platform regarding any topic, although religion is what the OP wanted to discuss.

Off topic criticism betrays a poster's intentions really, so that does have something to do with the subject the OP raised. Being off topic means it might go unchallenged to avoid detracting from the topic discussed.

No, I am not going to go all the way through this thread to highlight posts I would delete, there is no need, I have highlighted off topic comments throughout this thread - to spend time collating them all together would be a derailment in itself. I take it you know when you have digressed, head and why.

As for moderating derailments, some discretion can be used I think. Lots of deletions might be distracting in itself. I think when a trend is noted, that someone seems to be digressing as derailment, a warning and a suggestion that that poster opens a new thread, to discuss what they want, could be issued. If they take no notice, continued off topic comments could be deleted.

Agree OP. No issue with the theist v atheist debate thread albeit they always go in the same way and say the same things. No issue re school admissions or HOL, Christian privilege type threads and tend to agree more with the atheists on those points despite being a Christian. But just don't see the point or the need for so many threads with any kind of faith related subject to end up as another version of the same old thread. The Judaism thread had some frankly pathetic posts on it and that particular poster has been a PITA on various threads previously. Bar the prayer thread I rarely post on any other religious threads mainly because I don't come on here to debate. I am happy with what I believe and I don't feel I need to justify or explain it to anyone. Most of the people close to me are (tolerant) atheists and so I rarely get the chance to discuss matters of faith in RL. I would welcome more opportunity to do so here but would never feel comfortable enough to start a thread for the exact reasons discussed by various PP above.

"Bertrand I didn't make the post you quoted, however perhaps understanding that derailment can undoubtedly provide a platform to 'spout hurtful and nasty comments' means it is irrelevant to discuss the specifics of those comments on this thread."

I didn't say you did. But I think it is incredibly relevant. I can genuinely see no hateful and nasty comments on this thread. Others can. So I want to be shown them. You can't make accusations without backing them up. And you can't tell
people to stop doing something you don't like unless you explain what you want them to stop. There seems to be quite a lot of "well if you don't know I can't explain- but I will certainly call you on anything I decide is unacceptable. And I will make that decision on an ad hoc basis"

Could you show us which posts on here you would like to see MN delete?

Should MN delete all off topic posts, and all posts the contain criticism? Or just the ones about religion?

You are missing my point about the discrete private and public aspects to religion. The minute someone says we should model modern Britain on the values of the ot, stonings and all, you'd have a point.
Coming onto a thread about personal aspects of a belief system and demandng those people justify the old testament is derailing. Its not the actions of someone who wants to know.
'I do not seek to make window s into men's souls' said Elizabeth 1. Didn't work out so well but the sentiment is sound.

Bertrand I didn't make the post you quoted, however perhaps understanding that derailment can undoubtedly provide a platform to 'spout hurtful and nasty comments' means it is irrelevant to discuss the specifics of those comments on this thread. Derailment works because it is so distracting. The potential distraction means people try to ignore off topic posts which means the 'hurtful and nasty comments' can go unchallenged.

So instead of going through all the posts on the thread, looking for nastiness, would it be better to consider how this phenomenon could be helped by moderation?

Demanding justifications of the ot from ordinary people trying to make sense of the big stuff is derailing

Not if someone claims that God doesn't like a certain behaviour and I have a bible to hand that shows God doing it such as the thread about capital punishment. If someone claims that CP is unchristian it's only fair that someone points out that the bible could be used to condone state killing. Not doing so, so as not to upset anyone is patronising. We're a very grown up bunch here.

"is just using the thread as a platform to spout out hateful and nasty comments."

Great- maybe we're getting somewhere! Can you please highlight the hateful and nasty comments on this thread?