should we address the casual antisemitism on MN?

devora

People will yell at me...on the internet...maybe with capital letters

humpty

I know...its not just this thread,i write long posts and then delete them

You are both right though, people don't usualy mind when its a genuine question

Still scared...

"Even if they were there to debate whether he should wear grey socks on Tuesday or to simply agree with everything he said , that is their fundamental and free right to do so"

I agree. It's their right and they should be able to gather & talk freely.

Don't kid yourself that is the real debate that needs to be had about Israel, though. The other side in the debate is those who sympathize with Palestinians rather than Israel. And those critics are being silenced every day with the accusation of antisemitism, as if criticising the apartheid regime in effect and Israel's gradual theft of their land is the same thing as racism.

I am literally too afraid to make any comments or ask any questions

Don't be afraid. Asking etc is the only way learn

On MN in don't recall seeing anti Semitic comments (prior to this thread). I have seen quite a few anti-Islamic ones though.

In RL I have encountered some anti semitism and a LOT of anti Islamic opinion.

I have also seen a lot of people on MN pointing to racism where there is none. I think there is probably more of this than actual racism on MN.....

For example, I was accused of being anti Islamic due to objecting to animal slaughter without stunning (though oddly I wasn't accused of being anti Jewish or anti any other cultures which follow this practice). I've also seen discussions where people were calling anti-semitism in relation to objections of circumcision. I think often people want to see an unreasonable viewpoint when there isn't one!

And "There is a difference between being anti religion- which is fine, and anti religious people, which isn't." As Bertrand said is very true.

and the shape-shifting lizards (or ARE they the Illuminati? I get confused).

as of course we spend our free time locked in secret committees plotting control of the media, film industry, international finance etc

Have you told the patriarchy? You're stepping on their toes

And the Illuminati.

What happens, Rufus? What are you afraid of?

I'm baffled by the 'same side' thing too. So if people are all inhabitants of the same country they are all ultimately agreeing anyway? You could argue that as we are all human inhabitants of Planet Earth we are ultimately on the 'same side' too? Of course, when talking about Jews the 'same side' thing always takes on sinister undertones, as of course we spend our free time locked in secret committees plotting control of the media, film industry, international finance etc (no wonder I'm always knackered).

This happens on very many threads on mumsnet about all sorts of issues

I am literally too afraid to make any comments or ask any questions

"As you have discovered when it is called out the normal reaction is to deny, dismiss and minimise. I have found this thread depressing and chilling."

Yep, me too. The rush of posters to helpfully explain (repeatedly) that anti-circumcision is not anti-semitism, that anti-Zionism is not anti-semitism, the sceptical demands for evidence. The "what about Muslims?" diversion.

The general public, in the UK at least and I suspect right across Europe, has a very high tolerance for anti-semitism. Not consciously, for the most part - but the persistent refusal to accept that it is prevalent, it is unearned, and it is broadly nothing to do with religion - this is very telling. It's defensive. What needs defending?

Seriously baffled by this "same side" thing. If people share a common interest in the best interests of a given country, they're "on the same side"? Even when they have completely opposing and mutually exclusive viewpoints on how that might be achieved?

So - what? The only important debate is one in which people from different countries are engaging? It's only OK to discuss Israel (anything at all relating to Israel?) if you have invited at least one Palestinian to offer their view, "for balance"?

Is this something which applies to all countries, all of the time - or is it another of those weird instances where Israel is held to a higher standard than the rest of the world is expected to maintain?

According to a lot of 10 year olds I know, it's the Illuminati in charge

Cote. Were you there ? Thought not. Ever heard of movements like Jews for justice for Palestinians etc? Not saying I support them as I don't . However don't presume to know what opinion those in the room held. Shutting down debate is shutting down debate . Full stop. Those present were there to hear the speaker and debate his ideas . Even if they were there to debate whether he should wear grey socks on Tuesday or to simply agree with everything he said , that is their fundamental and free right to do so and no- one but no- one has the right to assault and heckle them till the meeting was closed down . Can't think the last time a Palestinian group in England were heckled , attached and violently assaulted by a Jewish group of students

It's the way society has been brainwashed to believe anything said against Jews is anti-Semetic. It's no secret who runs the world. It's Zionists. They own the media

Good grief

They were on the same side, just differing on the methods for the best interests of Jewish people and Israel.

Like Democrats and Republicans in the US disagree on the methods but they are all on the same side - they all want what is best for Americans and the US, first and foremost.

"You may sneer that everyone in a Jewish Society agree with each other. But surely they should be able to meet without being hassled."

"Of course, everyone should be able to meet and exchange opinions without being hassled. Nobody was sneering, btw, just saying that a meeting where everyone is on the same side is not the debate we talk about when we refer to shutting down debate (eg by routinely accusing critics of antisemitism)."

They weren't on the same side in that room btw. The speaker was a known left wing Israeli peace activist . Opinion in the room very much divided as to support and opposition and students getting ready to have a good old argument once he'd finished speaking . But they weren't given that chance .

Time to name and shame i feel.

LaGrosseVache your views are unsettling, i sincerely hope you're not passing on your misguided, narrow minded and paranoid opinions onto your children.

It's frightening to hear people like you spout such bullshit.
It'd be laughable if it wasn't unfortunately a relatively common viewpoint.

Feel free to PM me, i would relish educating you.

OP, I have seen casual antisemitism on MN. It is subtle, insidious and often dressed up as something else. So it is difficilt for MNHQ to deal with.

As you have discovered when it is called out the normal reaction is to deny, dismiss and minimise. I have found this thread depressing and chilling.

It's the way society has been brainwashed to believe anything said against Jews is anti-Semetic. It's no secret who runs the world. It's Zionists. They own the media.

So much wrong with that statement I don't know where to begin

I don't think they are trolls.
I don't think one can "play" at being racist.
I think the vast majority are cowards who hide behind a keyboard.

I wonder if so many of the racists on the internet are in fact just trolls.

My eldest son was telling us about the "Zuckerberg" conspiracy (Zuckerberg being the Jewish founder of Facebook).
A complex and intricate plot to gather information on users and use this information for dubious ends.
One more plot to add to the seemingly endless list.

But there just seem to be so many of them around on social media. its just depressing.

I always find it particularly disappointing as a surprising number of otherwise reasonable, left-wing, progressive people spout this shit. I can't fathom it. Bonkers unfounded nonsense.

I've been hearing Jewish monopoly theories since my early teens.
Many large corporations cited as Jew controlled.
Why?

I'm afraid that the old stereotype of the business savvy, manipulating, profiteering Jew comes into play.
Some underhand conspiracy to take the world's finances.
Ring any bells?

Sinister notion indeed.

I too like to think that the Zionist media controlling the world conspiracy theorists are just too bonkers to bother with.

But there just seem to be so many of them around on social media. its just depressing.