should we address the casual antisemitism on MN?

The only two Rebeccas nn Becky I know are not Jewish.

The only two Rebeccas nn Becky are not Jewish. One is Catholic and the other is Christian of some other denomination. I wouldn't have understood "becky" as referring to Jewish girls and certainly wouldn't have thought of it as antisemitism if I saw it.

I personally haven't seen anything. I wouldn't have known that term nor the history behind it if I had seen the thread, so wouldn't have known to report.

Sorry, I had to listen to DS reading in the middle of my post so by the time I finished it, the thread had moved on somewhat

I think it's undeniable that anti-semitism is on the increase, in the UK as in the rest of the world. Hate attacks are on the increase, certainly in the area where I live. I don't want to out myself too much but there was a media article recently about the increase of hate crimes against Jews, and distressingly, Jewish children.Our local synagogue has a police guard FFS.

As MN is representative of the U.K. (and elsewhere) it's probably true that it has users that hold anti Semitic views - whether they voice them here or not. MNHQ however are, IMO, usually quick and efficient at deleting when their attention is drawn to unacceptable comments. (At the risk of derailing the thread, I think a lot more people express disablist views here than racist views).

People just have to keep reporting and let MNHQ deal with it. I love the fact MN is self moderated and the fact that "fuck" is acceptable but "moron" isn't. I don't want the self moderation to change and if it means that occasionally knobbish comments stand before being deleted, so be it. I'm an adult, I'm fully aware lots of people hold views that make them a cunt are racist, disablist etc and that I will encounter them. In fact I sometimes think deleted comments should stand, so the "true colours" of the owner of such views are revealed.

But you said other posters agreed- I am now very baffled.

Can you give some very clear examples- with links if possible- to the anti semitism you see on mumsnet?

Yeah, Morris, that's true- I just think the guessing was a bit awkward!

Bertrand, the person who said Isis were Jews was a 7 yr old friend of the worried op.

"It is an anti Semitic mindset, yes.

But the comments alone while horrible and stupid were not anti Semitic (in my view)"

So saying that ISIS is a Jewish organization is not anti Semitic in your view? Bloody hell- it certainly is in mine.

Helmet, the op wasn't talking in general. She said she had seen an instance of casual anti semitism that was sinister and breathtaking.

Her subsequent refusal to even hint at what it was left others to guess.

It is an anti Semitic mindset, yes.

But the comments alone while horrible and stupid were not anti Semitic (in my view)

Read what I said.
I said they weren't directly anti semitism.
I said they weren't deleted (I didn't report them)

However, they indicate a certain mindset, yes.

Well, I think the Isis remark is anti-Semitic, and the latter incredibly distasteful at best if not anti-Semitic, implying as it does that an entire religion or ethnic group deserves a certain level of risk or suffering based on the actions of a government associated with that religion.

(I'm one of those rabid anti-religion atheists, by the way.)

But using phrases like 'a certain mindset' dodges the issue. What mindset exactly, if it isn't an anti-Semitic one?

"The comments about Isis and Jews in Europe not having real issues still stand because, as I said, they were not directly anti Semitic. However, they indicate a certain mindset, yes."

Well, as you reported them, they were anti Semitic, yes. Did you report the posts?

Ubik quoted me and then said 'are you saying that opposing circumcision and being critical of Israel is anti Semitic'?

I want to know how she got that from my remarks.

The comments about Isis and Jews in Europe not having real issues still stand because, as I said, they were not directly anti Semitic. However, they indicate a certain mindset, yes.

Ok so saying Isis are Jews is a perfectly legitimate position now?

And putting words in a person's mouth is a perfectly legitimate way to discuss freedom of speech?

The whole 'Isis are Jews' theory is obviously bonkers. I've never seen it on mumsnet but if it was posted I'm sure it would be robustly challenged.

"Ok so saying Isis are Jews is a perfectly legitimate position now?

thank you for letting me know.

Diminishing fears of Jews in Europe is not bigoted at all?

Fascinating."

Nope. And if anyone says such things they should be reported and deleted.

"bertrand I think that's quite a good example of the entrenched mindset nell was referring to."

What- saying that some Zionists use accusations of antisemitiam to shut down debates about Israeli government policy? Are you saying that never happens?

Just a quick response to the person upthread who asked me to expand.

Person in question grew up in a family with a gripe about losing family money to someone Jewish at the beginning of the 20th century. Person started a jeweller's shop and did very well. I've heard the story numerous times from family and they've blown it up into a tragedy that somehow directly affects them to this day.

Company person works for (family run manufacturer non Jewish, no Jewish employees 200 staff) has been bought by much larger manufacturer with global interests which just happens to have been founded by Jewish brothers 100 years ago.

Person in question casually drops remark about working for "The Jews" as from Monday and I was a bit WTF? at the comment, as out of character for said person to say something anti another group. Cue diatribe about above family story yet again and tells me lots in factory not especially pleased.

So I asked how many had handed in their resignations because they don't want to work for new company? Nobody, of course (because they're all "trapped" working to pay bills). Pointed out the difference between person living in society where they're politically free to move on if they don't like who they're working for and the many people around the world who aren't.

I think the point was that said person isn't deeply anti Jewish or any other faith but somehow felt they were ok expressing an anti Jewish point of view about things that happened a century ago which truly have no bearing on their life today and how very casually it was done. It makes me uncomfortable.

Said person has been reminded about the difference between freedom of expression and saying whatever you like, whenever you like without really thinking first.

I'm not sufficiently well educated to really comment further. This was just an example of what I've seen happening. To me, it's ignorant tarring with a broad brush.

Ok so saying Isis are Jews is a perfectly legitimate position now?

thank you for letting me know.

Diminishing fears of Jews in Europe is not bigoted at all?

Fascinating.

I find it disturbing when people attribute perfectly legitimate political positions as indications of a 'certain mindset' ie a bigoted mindset.

Well fancy that - turns out I knew the word all along (having grown up in north west London with a lot of Jewish friends). I never knew it was considered so offensive but thanks to this thread I am enlightened.

Obviously not all anti-Zionists are like that (NAAZALT?) but some anti-Zionism is undeniably a cover for anti-Seminitism. I find people's reluctance to acknowledge this rather odd.

bertrand I think that's quite a good example of the entrenched mindset nell was referring to.

Fucking hell I just gave some examples and they were nothing to do with circumcision or the Israeli military.

Not direct anti semitism, and they werent deleted. However it does. indicate a certain mind set

Are you saying that opposing circumcision and to being critical of Israel, is antisemitic? Indications of a bigoted mindset? Hate speech?