Gender specifications on your Mumsnet account: update

Language is a minefield :)

As an aside, although the uk passport form asks for gender, the passport itself lists sex. If the two aren't the same, aren't they making assumptions...?

Article on Facebook gender options.

I'm fascinated by the Hungarian grammatical gender issue. I've long wondered how our native tongue affects our understanding of the world. Are our sensitivities about pronouns more to do with our language than our society?

Soupy

Not that many will care, but in the Hungarian language - which doesn't actually have gender specific pronouns! - we use the word equivalent to "gender" when stating if someone is male or female.

I like the idea of not being shown adverts that are irrelevant to me. Let's see.

What gender is "not a drinker, not getting pg again, looking for quality white bamboo flooring, need help with how to make my children listen to me...."

Anyway, if the Q is "sex" and the choices are male or female, surely people who have XXX or XXY chromosomes will not be able tick anything.

Can't help but feel that you have missed the point spectacularly here, MNHQ.

But wasn't the problem the question itself?

It should be 'sex' not 'gender.'

That was the WHOLE ISSUE.

True IAGTBF - that was an added stroke of genius that I concede was all yours!

Whether that would be enough for everyone I don't know - out for a bit, back later

I don't see how this is an improvement

The question can be skipped anyway.

Plus those 4 options from IAGTBF were the ones I suggested!

Ah, but you didn't suggest removing gender & sex from the question

Even "Sex" isn't accurate for appropriate targetting of ovulation calendars. Plenty of women couldn't give two shiny ones eg they're taking hormonal contraception, celibate, post-menopause, or simply not TTC or TTA and don't care.

Yes, like those two posts from Hairy and ItsAllGoingToBeFine

Plus those 4 options from IAGTBF were the ones I suggested!

Basically I'm up for enough choices to help everyone feel comfortable - and putting your users needs before those of your advertisers HQ!

Sarah, you're still not answering the question 'why not ask for sex, instead of gender?'. Can you do so please? Thanks.

Over the last week or so I have discovered that:

1. BA insist you give them your gender (male/female)
2. The UK passport form insists you give your gender (again male/female)

And yes, it says gender.

That'd be far too sensible itsallgoingtobefine...!

I have it! I have the solution!

Don't mention gender or sex.

Simply ask are you male /female/ other / prefer not to say.

That way people answering the question can interpret however they like, and nobody can possibly be offended obviously someone will, but we can but try

I understand that, juggling

As long as gender doesn't come at the expense of sex, then fine. I've no desire to limit how other people identify, as it has no relevance to me at all.

But I don't want to be compelled to 'identify' as something I am not, nor to I want to be grouped with people who are biologically the opposite sex in certain particular circumstances because they feel they 'identify' the same as I actually am.

When I am considering issues that affect primarily or exclusively biological females globally (FGM, sex discrimination, sexual violence issues, limiting education of girls globally, child brides, childbirth mortalities etc) identity doesn't even enter into it. Biological women suffer certain issues globally not because of their gender identity, but because of their biology.
Girls and women can't just identify their way out of misery around the world. Their biology determines the pathway of their lives. And the people that discriminate against girls and women aren't doing it because they think that women have a certain gender identity - they see their sex, and the discrimination happens on that basis.

So we need to be able to use the word sex when we mean biology.
For some of us, the push to differentiate by 'gender' clouds the issue because it simply isn't the most important thing to most women's lives.

Yet sex is vanishing as a question on forms from passport applications to driving licences to Mumsnet. And you can't protect a group of people who are oppressed by reason of their sex, if you aren't even acknowledging what their sex is.

Those for whom gender identity is very relevant can of course use it for themselves, so long as they don't impose it upon me too.

Thanks Sarah
It does matter to some people wonky - clearly not everyone
We can all find ourselves in a minority at some point in our lives, or our friends and loved ones may do too

Sarah, will there be space to write "Gender is a load of sexist bollocks?"

If not, can you change "Gender" to "Sex"? I think that's what a lot of us would really prefer.

For heavens sake. Is nowhere safe? I don't seem to be able to click on anything without stumbling upon a discussion about trans this and trans that.

What the feck is wrong with having a "sex: male / female / prefer not to say" range of choices?

From what I read on here, "gender" seems to be an evolving terminology containing an ever expanding subset of concepts. You're never going to get it "right", therefore.

What a lot of utter balls this is.

Just wondering Sarah are optional questions clearly marked as such - eg. with an asterix for required ones? That might be helpful?

I think there are lots of us here too who do want to respect people's gender identities and choices around the whole gender issues conundrum Hairy

well if its about advertising and ovulation, maybe a pre the Big M or after question might be useful

I don't get what difference it would make if it said sex. it would be the same question.
BUT if it was sex, would that be what you are born as?