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Step this way to help shape the future of maternity services in England

160 replies

RowanMumsnet · 10/07/2015 10:50

Hello

As some of you will know, Mumsnet is on the panel of the National Maternity Review, which is an NHS England initiative set up in the wake of the report into the deaths of mothers and babies at the Morecambe Bay hospitals trust.

The remit of the review is to 'assess current maternity care provision and consider how services should be developed to meet the changing needs of women and babies'.

So we'd be really grateful if you could give us your feedback on the following two very broad themes:

Which choices do you wish to be able to make about the maternity care you receive?

What are the key barriers preventing women from making the choices that they wish to?

Thanks - any and all thoughts welcome. (And just FYI, this won't be your only opportunity to feed in, and more detailed feedback systems are going to be launched soon - we'll flag these up as they happen.)

OP posts:
StarlightMcKenzee · 20/07/2015 13:08

Fantastic post Redtoothbrush

After my traumatic birth I went the other way and insisted on a homebirth despite some medical indications that triggered the policy to deter me.

I would have not moved from this stance upon report of the severest of emergency as it is my believe that my hospital birth caused my first child's lifelong disability and un-repairable damage to my mental health and my body. Moving to a hospital, in my opinion and strong belief would have NEVER been worth the risk. I would not trust my caregivers to accurately or honestly report the requirement for intervention.

RedToothBrush · 20/07/2015 12:50

OTHER ISSUES
I think one of the first things people say about woman centred care being put ahead of budgets and statistics is the cost of it. I personally think this shows the lack of joined up thinking in maternity as a whole. I mentioned above the report that looked into the cost to society of neglecting maternal mental health. The problem is that budgets begin and end at the labour ward doors and don't extend to longer term health problems - both mental and physical - and the knock on effects they may have for that woman on a wider level to society which include everything from benefits to negligence pay outs. Decisions are being made based on the fact on how much things cost initially which may not reflect the real cost of something. I passionately believe that if you invest more in women centred care then the financial benefits that would reap would be enormous and would benefit women immeasurably regardless of their choices.

The way in which data is being collected is supporting certain ideological and political beliefs rather than looking to improve care and provide evidence based medicine is not helping the matter. Its an epidemic problem.

Studies routinely draw conclusions separating VBs from EMCS which are a possible outcome of a VB and instead group ELCS with EMCS. This is not sound methodology. It makes VBs look safer than they are and ELCS worse than they are, with profound implications for our understanding of risks involved. An ELCS has very different risks to an EMCS. You need to have an exceptional understanding of statistics to be able to understand the data currently available and be able to question its worth to get a true reflection of risk. The trouble is, that even a lot of HCPs are excepting figures at face value, because the figures do support their ideological and political beliefs and the pressures placed on them.

Why is it, that the number of ELCS, EMCS and instrumental births are data that is easily and freely available to the public but there is a massive lack of transparency over 3rd and 4th degree tears? How can women make informed decisions when this crucial information is being with held. Its information that a sizeable proportion of women are concerned about and would like to know. It means that hospitals are much less accountable; there may be some that can boast about high unassisted birth rates but may have a dirty little secret for that.

In addition to this we have great gaps in our knowledge over why women are even having ELCS in the first place. The whole thing needs a major overall.

The Select Committee Fourth Report on health from 2003 stated the following:

80. Around 63% of caesarean sections carried out were identified as emergency procedures, while 37% were identified as elective. The Department noted that, in the Audit, 7% of caesareans were attributed to maternal request. However, the Audit Report itself indicated that such classifications might be misleading:

Caesarean section has traditionally been divided into two groups, either elective or emergency procedures. The emergency category is broad, as it may include procedures done within minutes to save the life of a mother or baby as well as those in which mother and baby are well but where early delivery is desirable … In some centres this has led to an ad hoc local adaptation … This has resulted in data inconsistencies between hospitals

81. With regard to the 'maternal request' category identified by the Department, the Centre for Family Research at the University of Cambridge found that individual obstetricians used different definitions of a maternal request, with some recording this as a reason for undertaking caesarean section even if it had been recommended by clinical staff as the best course of action.

84. Perhaps the most contentious and least understood of these factors is women's choice. The British Association of Perinatal Medicine (BAPM) told us that "greater consumer choice in choosing when and how to deliver", is a factor which contributed to rising caesarean section rates. However, several others detected a perception, fuelled by media coverage of private practice, that the rise in caesarean rates is largely a consequence of maternal request for the procedure. Dr Soo Downe of the Midwifery Studies Research Unit, University of Central Lancashire, told us that:

There appears to be little evidence that the sharp rise in the rates of caesarean section can be fully explained by a rise in maternal requests for the operation. Maternal request subsequent on a traumatic first birth experience may, however, play a small part in the rise.

85. Caesarean section rates in private hospitals are often higher than in the NHS (the Portland Hospital in London has a caesarean section rate of some 44%). As we have noted, while these rates have little impact on national statistics, the levels of public awareness of celebrities who deliver their babies by caesarean section in private hospital may have a disproportionate influence on culture and perceptions.

86. According to the Centre for Family Research at the University of Cambridge, the RCOG and many others who provided written evidence for our inquiry, pregnant women want more information on the risks and benefits of caesarean section and wish to be involved in the decision-making process. A survey carried out between 1999 and 2002 by the Centre for Family Research at the University found that that maternal requests for caesareans were made mainly because of fears about the health of mother or baby. In their most extreme form, these fears constituted a phobia of giving birth (tokophobia), and a small number of seriously traumatised women may need surgery in order to avoid severe psychological problems.

I repeat this is from 2003. Yet here we are in 2015 with very little progress and some of the same problems. My 'clinically indicated need' for an ELCS was recorded as maternal request. There was no recording in the statistics that it had anything to do with my mental health. So despite there being a question raised about a lack of understanding and poor recording of reasons for ELCS BY A PARLIMENTARY GROUP, fuck all has really been done in TWELVE YEARS to address that.

This does highlight my fear that the review may not change anything, unless there is real political will at government and trust level to change things. My worry is, that the can of worms that would be opened by admitting that poor care has lead to women receiving care that is substandard and has damaged their physical and/or mental health is just too big.

The issue is that contrary to the above comment about traumatic first births playing a small part in the rise of maternal requests, www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/nov/14/scared-birth-trauma-midwives in 2010 the Guardian reported the following.

The NHS is responding to a surge in cases of birth trauma by setting up specialist support services to reduce the rising demand for a caesarean delivery from those who, after a bad experience, are scared to undergo labour again.

Midwives say increasing numbers of women are so badly affected by their first experience of birth that they are postponing for years, or abandoning, plans to have any more children.

There are no NHS-wide statistics on the problem. But maternity staff at many hospitals report a rise in such cases over the past two or three years.

At Liverpool Women's hospital, for example, the number of mothers who have asked for an elective caesarean with their forthcoming child, because they suffered trauma the last time, has risen 40%.

Other hospitals, including St Mary's in Manchester and Stepping Hill in Stockport, have seen the same trend and are also introducing counselling services.

At the moment ELCS do seem to be looked at as the solution to traumatic births, which I personally feel even as someone who choose to have an ELCS this really is the wrong approach and is a way of trying to deal with the effects problems rather than dealing with problems themselves.

It is also quite apparent that there is ignorance as to what birth trauma is. I've seen a lot of threads on MN where women have been distressed enough to go for a debrief only to face dismissive comments that they can't be traumatised because they had a 'text book' birth. Which actually is even more damaging. Such comments display an appalling lack of respect to women and a real ignorance of the subject. Especially when you consider that one of the things that makes women feel like this in the first place is a dismissal of them and their feelings.

The Birth Trauma Association knock this out of the water by making the comment that its in the eye of the beholder; basically anyone who feels traumatised is and should be listened to and treated accordingly.

Essentially I think the problems stem from ring fenced budgets, an obsession with targets over humanity, a short sighted health care model, a lack of regard for mental health, a lack of respect and dignity for women, poor communication, political pressures from above meaning that doctors and midwives have a conflict of interest between the needs of the patient and their own jobs, poor understanding of statistics, ideology influencing outcomes, lack of transparency, poor planning and provision of services, massive ignorance of mental health, poor interpretation of guidance, policy over personal care, poor staffing, lack of political interest and will with regard to maternity, a cultural attitude to put up and shut up, women being less empowered, able and willing to complain about poor care, inconsistency and wide disparity in care throughout the country which is confusing to women (and indeed HCPs - one Trust did not understand the format of notes from another in my case), women not even being aware of their rights and when they have good cause to complain and institutionalised backside covering.

I have written an essay and beat the character limit for a single post as it is. I could say a shed tonne more. I hope I haven't killed MNHQ with boredom from my ranting! I'm sorry its not a little more coherent. I hope there is something in there that is of use and makes sense.

RedToothBrush · 20/07/2015 12:47

The focus after Morecambe has largely centred on physical damage to women and children. This is quite right, but there is very little thought being given to the mental health of women which may well stem from a difficult birth (but is not restricted too). The irony is that you'd be hard pushed to find a midwife who doesn't regard childbirth as both a physical and psychological thing where the two can not be separated. Yet this does seem to be being completely lost in modern maternity services.

I was VERY VERY fortunate. I gave birth September 2014. My experience was very much coloured by choices I made, research I was able to do and awareness of my options and rights and a huge element of nothing but pure luck. I spent about 5 years thinking about it, before I felt in a position where I could go through with things.

I choose to have an ELCS for mental health reasons. This is what I did, and what barriers I feel there are to others in a similar situation and why my case seems to be unique rather than the model of good care it should be. That is woman centred care, which is focused not on targets and budgets but what is in the best interests of the woman concerned.

Sadly my experience seems unparalleled by anyone else I've seen post on MN in the last 5 years since I started banging on about the subject. It frustrates me, that my experience should NOT be the exception to the rule. I am very privileged in that I had the ability and the support to take the courses of action I did. This is not how the NHS is supposed to work. It should not be based on people getting better care based on their ability to navigate the system. Its supposed to be equal and should protect the weakest in our society the most rather than those who have the best means.

I'm sorry I can't put this into nice neat 'what choices would you like?' and 'what barriers are there to this?' soundbites as the two go much more hand in hand within my experiences.

MY EXPERIENCE
I approached my GP prior to getting pregnant and was able to be referred for help prior to getting pregnant. This is highly unusual, with few GPs being quite so supportive and few hospitals allowing women in my position, as a woman who had not previously given birth, to get a referral. One of the barriers to this, is until recently the care pathways did not allow a woman who had not given birth to be reffered in this way. They have recently changed it so that any woman who has some sort of mental health related issue should be reffered, but I think in practice this isn't being done (in part due to a lack of awareness of the change) and doesn't cover a lot of women because you have to be diagnosed as having a problem which merits it (which is very subjective and therefore dependant on the doctor you see).

My GP however did not know what to do with me and it was completely down to me to find services available. She was open and honest about this, which was a good thing as she didn't try and fob me off. She recognised there was a clinical problem that needed help, rather than being patronising or otherwise suggesting I was being pathetic or weak minded. She was supportive in saying that I appeared to know more than here on the subject and was happy for me to lead her and her to support me in my choices.

I choose to go to another Trust rather than my local one, because my local Trust did not have any specialist maternal mental health provision. This was supported by my consultant midwife, who subsequently said that he regarded my ELCS as 'clinically indicated' and was a 'need' rather than purely a choice.

Unfortunately I am not alone in living in an area where there is no specialist maternal mental health provision. The Maternal Mental Health Alliance (MMHA) currently have a campaign going to improve this after a report produced in October 2014 by the London School of Economics and the Centre for Mental Health charity and a parallel audit conducted by the MMHA themselves and the Royal College of Psychiatrists found huge disparity in care throughout the country.

This story from the Guardian explains a lot of the arguments and how much this is costing the country. This completely knocks on the head any arguments about not being able to fund better maternal mental health care. Crucially the reports found:

Of 211 clinical commissioning groups in England, the regional organisations that partly replaced primary care trusts last year, just 3% have a formal strategy for perinatal mental health services, with a significant majority having no plans to implement one. and that there are no specialist service at all in 40% of areas in England and Scotland, rising to 70% on Wales and 80% in Northern Ireland. Fewer than 15% of the UK had comprehensive provision.

So even if you do want to make choices relating to your mental health, you are incredibly restricted by where you live as to whether you can access specialist services. This is utterly appalling.

I made it clear that I was as fearful of the red tape surrounding requesting an ELCS as much as the birth itself which I think did me a lot of favours. The hospital bent over backwards to make it as painless a process as possible and didn't try and talk me out of it. Thankfully their policy was to never deny a request for an ELCS because that added to stresses. Instead they worked closely with women who wanted an ELCS and tried to build a proper relationship with them which improved trust and communication. They had a good track record from this, which meant that a sizeable number of women who did initially request an ELCS changed their mind without pressure and did have a VB. This is one of the reasons I wanted to go to this hospital, as there did not seem to be an agenda one way or another and I never felt under any pressure to change my mind. Instead the way they built trust up with me, has been enormously beneficial in the long term in restoring faith in HCPs.

I was offered counselling, which I declined. I have seen a lot of posts on this on MN. Many women are feeling like they are automatically being forced down this route and if they don't comply then they have no hope of getting an ELCS. The way that counselling is framed is being seen as a way of 'talking women out of an ELCS' rather than being something that is in the best interests of the woman concerned. I think this is problematic in many respects. Some women don't want or even need it. Others who do are being put off it, when they might benefit because there is an underlying suspicion of it. Whether this suspicion is justified is up for debate, but I think the context of a 'drive to reduce CS rates' has to be looked at.

I also was given choices which were not in line with standard hospital policy which were designed to help me. My husband was allowed into theatre for my spinal and throughout the procedure (normally he wouldn't have been allowed there for the spinal) and he was allowed to stay over night in a private room to help me cope afterwards. This was invaluable. Yet the facilities are not available in many places to do this, nor is there even a hint in planning and building new maternity units that more private rooms and more flexible and tailored care can be beneficial to the health of women. Its viewed more as a luxury rather than having potential health benefits.

chocolatemartini · 17/07/2015 15:59

Which choices do you wish to be able to make about the maternity care you receive?

I was lucky to have access to a caseload midwife team (Oakwood attached to Kings Hospital in Dulwich) who were amazing, I had a named midwife, the whole range of options open to me re the birth, and I was able to have a home birth with 2 midwives I had met previously. All my wishes were honoured and respected, eg I had no VEs even though their normal protocol was to do them.

What are the key barriers preventing women from making the choices that they wish to?

These caseload teams are not available universally and should be- as far as I understand they are proven to save more money than they cost to run.

captainproton · 17/07/2015 15:04

Oh and no men on postnatal wards. I'm sorry if you have no one else to help you apart from your partner, but I don't want to be a hospital curtain away from one, with a catheter, lochia seeping through my nightie, trying to modestly make my way to the loo.

captainproton · 17/07/2015 14:58

Haven't read all of the responses but here is my input.

For second and third time mums could the NHS not save money by looking back at maternity notes for blood group / sickle cell. Things that cannot change between pregnancies.

I also hate the way that when you become pregnant you are treated like a child and spoken to so patronisingly. We are just another walking womb they must deal with, but we are people and we have a right to our wants to be heard.

I went to the antenatal lessons at the hospital and also the NCT. The NCT was a lot more informative about birthing positions, mechanics of birth, pain relief options etc. we were basically told at the hospital we would be in agony and begging for an epidural and anyone hoping to birth without epidural were laughed at. I don't know what the point of the lesson was apart from to scare you into doing as you were told by the midwife as you are silly first time mums.

Also when giving birth, if the mum wants you to leave her alone and wants you to shut up asking questions about crap on a checklist, shut up and back off.

If a mother has torn and is not bleeding profusely and she is shouting at you to get your fucking hands out of her vagina because it hurts, get your fucking hands out of her vagina, go get some local anaesthetic and ask nicely.

OurDearLeader · 17/07/2015 08:48

Out of reach means anywhere the patient cannot reach in their current condition. If there is doubt the nurse should check. Believe me, access to call buttons is a serious issue and I know of more than one case where there have been sackings as a result of staff not ensuring they are in reach.

Flisspaps · 17/07/2015 08:13

Harimad yes, yes, yes.

I didn't want any but the MW basically refused to bring any G&A out unless I had a VE as she didn't think I was in established labour. I was contracting for a full minute, every 6 minutes or so Hmm

She did the 1 VE I was prepared to allow. I was 6cm and she did a sweep 'while she was there' - without consent - who needs a sweep at 6 fucking cm? Angry

I complained to the SOM after.

kittyvet · 16/07/2015 22:20

More midwife led centres. Choice here of home birth or obstetric ward. No middle way. One to one care. Even though I had a team of midwives for ante and post natal care the size of the team meant I didn't get to know any one person well.

HarimadSol · 16/07/2015 16:05

This is perhaps relatively minor, but I would have liked to have an actual choice about having internal examinations. It was presented as a choice, but the options were be examined or go home (45 min drive each way), be examined or have no pain relief. The examinations didn't even give accurate information as to how close I was to giving birth. I think it's surprising that they will take you at your word when you become pregnant, but not believe you when you say you're in established labour.

MrsTittleMouse · 16/07/2015 13:56

Agree with everyone else that I had no choice. Being browbeaten into signing a consent form when I was exhausted and hadn't been licensing relief wasn't me making a "choice". Also being lied to about the treatment that I'd received; a tear does not result in a scar with a perfect line up the vagina ending in a j shape in the perineum, and they would have known at the time that there was no way to do an instrumental birth without an episiotomy, they just agreed not to do one to shut me up (and lied then on the notes).

Also agree that there should be proper follow up studies, I had a demanding new born and was in no state to complain, and as they'd lied on my notes it would have been fruitless anyway as they would have just closed ranks. There's a good chance that I'll need major surgery after menopause, a c section would have been much cheaper in the long run, but I was a "success" as the baby cameo out vaginally, and never mind how much I cost the nhs in the future as a result of the damage they caused, that isn't recorded.

I also think that there's a lot of paternalism in the system. I wasn't a rational human being with rights and dignity, I was a sausage in a sausage factory, an inconvenient piece of meat.

JsOtherHalf · 15/07/2015 20:47

Define out of reach though? If I had been able to turn and stretch I could have managed it easily. Having just had a section, this was impossible.
And as for being able to pour a jug of water into a beaker...

OurDearLeader · 15/07/2015 20:24

Sorry, sort of off topic, but if a call button is out of reach that is a serious breach of protocol which can potentially have fatal results and a complaint should be made immediately.

I worked on revamping a unit a few years back. An elderly gentleman had a feeding peg put in but it was miset and he had 48 hours worth of food pumped into his stomach in an hour. The call button was out of reach so he couldn't call help and sadly he died. Nurses must make sure the call button is in reach and are in breach of their duty if they don't. Complain, complain, complain and make a big fuss if necessary.

MomentOfWonder · 15/07/2015 17:27

Apologies as I haven't been able to read the preceding posts in detail, which feels a bit wrong as many people have clearly taken the time to share very difficult experiences.

I think there are real mixed messages that go to pregnant women/new parents around 'trust your instinct/you have the right to choose' versus 'we know better than you.' For example, when you contact triage in labour, does the midwife who answers the phone take the time to really suss out what's going on for you, or are they dismissive and cold (which surely risks missing important information?).

At a very basic level, midwives and other professionals (including those giving postnatal breastfeeding advice on the ward) should all be giving evidence-led advice - I wouldn't expect them all to be saying exactly the same thing, but the level of variation I've found is unacceptable. I was told so many different things about when to go in amongst other issues that it was bewildering and disempowering at a time when I was scared and vulnerable. I'm sure I'm not the only one. I would have loved to use the MLU with my second baby, but felt fobbed off and was too sheepish to elbow my way in in time and as it was only just missed giving birth in triage - there wouldn't have been time to fill the pool!

And it seemed to be pot luck whether you got care from a compassionate midwife or one who seemed to think that by being in their ward you were an inconvenience (there were more of the former, but that's still not good enough!). I understand the concept of compassion fatigue, but some people seem to lack basic kindness and empathy.

Obviously units are under massive pressure but when I struggled to be admitted with my first baby the advice around what should be happening with me changed several times - it felt like that was more due to what was going on in the ward than what was best for us. The pressure also seems to lead to a 'tick-boxy' approach from both antenatal and postnatal professionals, including health visitors.

I should also say that I too was extremely grateful that my partner was able to stay on the postnatal ward first time round, I'd be very sad if that stopped across the board. It would be great if hospitals could find a way to manage the privacy of patients with their need for support - not that partners should be unpaid healthcare assistants!

My two experiences of childbirth weren't entirely negative by any means but really hope that this review will work to ensure that all women get a good experience.

UpsideDownMama · 15/07/2015 16:48

mumsnet - - PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE get midwives and Drs to listen to women's requests during labour. Many midwives/Drs only allow your requests if it suits their own ideologies. I've heard far too many stories about women being denied pain relief, access to an obstetrician if things don't appear to be going well. Women are just told 'no'. There can be a discussion of pros and cons or why a certain action isn't advisable but not an outright 'no' and the woman's decision should always be final.

Moreover we need to think about how incidents of poor care can be reported and dealt with. New mums are very busy and therefore may be less likely to put in a complaint even if unhappy with their care. Also, the complaints system is reliant on an internal investigation by people who are likely to protect their own or, worse still, may also have the attitude that women should just do as they are told in labour. Maybe every woman should be asked for feedback on their experience and any requests that were denied without proper explanation should be investigated independently.

Next it needs to be taken MUCH MUCH MORE SERIOUSLY when a woman is denied her request during labour. If it is proven that the woman was not included in decisions the midwife or doctor concerned should expect a disciplinary.

I had to battle with my midwife to transfer to hospital from the birth centre when I felt signs of baby distress were being ignored. The midwife refused my request with no attempt to understand my concerns. I had to be very very persistent to get her to agree and then she purposefully delayed the transfer by 1.5 hours and refused to accompany us in the ambulance. As far as I'm aware she didn't even get a disciplinary for this not even when my complaint was upheld (according to the complaint response she just got a reminder that her duty of care is until handover to the obstetrician). At hospital the staff included me in all decision making and were wonderful once I arrived there. If it's possible for the hospital staff to discuss options with me in an emergency situation (unfortunately my instincts that something was wrong were correct) there is no excuse for a midwife in a non-emergency situation to not listen to a woman. I don't want more women to go through this!!!

JeanBodel · 15/07/2015 11:54

Post-natal care. Yes. And less of the patronising attitude. I too was left in a bed unable to move due to injury, with my poor baby screaming for attention. I couldn't get to him. No one would help me.

The morning after the birth a HCA told me to go and get breakfast. I said 'I can't walk'. She said, 'Well, you won't get any breakfast then, will you?'

Thankfully a physiotherapist eventually turned up and shouted at them all, but the 12 hours after I gave birth were the worst of my life. Of course I also ended up with PND.

elliejjtiny · 15/07/2015 00:18

Agree with the people who said about a separate ward for the mums of babies in NICU. With DS4 I spent the whole time walking what felt like miles between my bed, the milk kitchen and NICU while the other mums laid in bed breastfeeding. With DS5 I was in so much pain from the EMCS that I needed 30mg of morphine before I could face the long walk to NICU. Of course by the time the pain was manageable I was too dizzy to walk.

Also agree with decent postnatal care. I had PND with all 5 of my children and there was no plan in place to try and prevent it happening with dc's 2, 3, 4 and 5. My youngest is 13 months old and all I get is a quick "keep taking the max dose of tablets and book another appointment in a month" from the gp.

WhatAreSafflowers · 14/07/2015 14:24

Prompted by the thread about the impact of damage from forceps delivery on maternal quality of life, I would really really like birth outcome studies to include longer term impacts and more generally impacts on the mother.

If the mother isn't dead, her outcomes don't really get recorded in studies of birth. For example it's just not reliably recorded whether the mother has long term issues with incontinence, numbness, fertility etc as a result of the birth. Effective recording of the issues is a critical step to doing something about them.

Taleggio · 14/07/2015 13:32

On the other thread, one MNer suggested an ultrasound during labour. I think that sounds brilliant as it would give everyone advanced notice if the baby was heading the wrong way, about to get stuck etc.

DS was back to back but they didn't realise until after he was came out the wrong way. This could have given us the advanced notice we needed to make a properly informed choice.

JsOtherHalf · 14/07/2015 12:09

I had forgotten not being able to reach the call button after my section. I was in a room by myself, they didn't bring me food or drinks.
DH spent most of the day with me for the two days I was in, arriving after 'breakfast - which I didn't get. He brought me in sandwiches, fruit, drinks,etc.
I was desperate to get out.

IceBeing · 14/07/2015 09:02

Sorry to hear that coast it mirrors my experience only even worse with the bonus of hallucinations....

Can I stress again how much damage this does to women, families and children? The effects can literally last a life time....and depression / PTSD can be fatal if not treated...and we all now how well funded treatment is for mental health disorders!

SweetAndFullOfGrace · 13/07/2015 22:02

Oh Sad Coastingit that's horrendous. Flowers

Taleggio · 13/07/2015 21:58

Oh Coastingit there are some sad stories on here but that is so awful. Hugs to you and to all of us who've gone through this shit. It just shouldn't be like this.

Coastingit · 13/07/2015 21:52

Just in case the message hasn't got through yet: postnatal care, postnatal care, postnatal care, postnatal care, postnatal care.

I was so badly traumatised by my first birth's aftercare that I struggle to write about it tbh so haven't been very personal. But I had a post partum haemmorage and was barely conscious for the first 48 hours of my son's life, I received no help to breastfeed and nobody passed him to me (I was bed bound, catheterised and in a lot of pain as I wasn't being provided with pain relief other than as hoc morphine injections, which knocked me out and made breastfeeding impossible, nobody told me that would happen and if they'd bothered giving me regular pain relief I wouldn't have been hallucinating and screaming in agony and needing bloody heroin to cope. Overnight support was nil.

Anyone important reading this - just imagine for a moment, your newborn screaming in hunger a foot away from you, you're in the dark and alone, no one is answering when you ring your buzzer repeatedly for hours. Then your baby stops crying because he has given up. You are in agonising pain too and haven't eaten in the last 24 hours. Just please imagine that, then fucking get some money and prioritisation into postnatal care.

Coastingit · 13/07/2015 21:39

Postnatal ward is hell on earth.

No help with breastfeeding, no help to get food if you are bed bound due to section / catheterisation, no help to reach your baby if you're unable to get to her, drugs round being a lottery - if you're awake and able to demand the drugs you require, and are compos mentis enough to keep track of when you last had painkillers, and shift changes meaning that any help you need won't happen until at least an hour after shift change - and even then only if you're top priority. Understaffing was a huge issue on the postnatal ward I was on recently.

The paediatrician who was dealing with DD had been working for 18 hours without a break and was nigh on hysterical, he told us that the entire maternity area of our hospital was unfit for purpose and very unsafe, and that he was complaining to our local MP about it, and he was encouraging all the new mums to complain too. All very well, but not very confidence inspiring to be told this by the doctor looking after your brand new and premature baby. He said he had worked in several countries including India, Somalia, Canada and the Phillipines, DH said 'oh does the uk compare badly then?' And the paed said in a slightly manic and cross eyed manner 'it's the worst! It's worse than anywhere else!'