Can we have a proper 'woo' topic?

Boots sell herbal and homeopathic remedies because they know people buy it and they make millions of pounds a year doing it. And because it's in Boots, people think it must be legit and above board because Boots are endorsing it, so more people buy it, so Boots stock more of it and the circle goes on. It is not anymore morally right than people who sell 'alternative' Cancer treatments to cancer patients.

I believe there was a small body of weakly positive evidence for herbal arnica in reducing bruising time slightly. Not sure whether later evidence has changed that though.

But lottie, your bad vibes can be explained! You've put a million years of evolution into developing fine-tuned perceptions, being processed by your brilliant mind much faster than you can form a thought. Isn't this amazing? You are amazing! That's real :) No need for woo - you've worked for a million years to get that skill, give yourself the credit you deserve.

Garlic, if it's science you want to talk about can I recommend Science and Nature forum as linked yb MNHQ instead of PRS.. Also can I ask what qualifications those who "kindly" diagnose "delusional" have?

Maryz, I'm afraid I can't link (old iPod). The problem that Indigo highlighted has been a problem for all of the years that I have been on MN. And while it doesn't impact every thread, it has impacted too many, just as MRAs and SN attackers have on those forums. What has happened is that believers have retreated to their respective religions' safe threads. So the frustrated and angry attack the Wooers and anyone who posts on a multi belief thread.

And as this thread and others outside of PRS has shown, many posters are interested in such threads and would prefer to read ideas and even criticisms without preachiness or bile.

if some people's experience leads them to a different conclusion than yours it does not always mean they are wrong.

Argh! If their experience leads them to a conclusion that directly opposes known facts, it does make them wrong! To reiterate, there's nothing wrong in having thoughts you find comforting, inspiring, etc. There's a whole world of wrong in asserting your thoughts as fact, simply because you believe in them.

Lots of 'psychics' claiming to find lost children, too.

interesting Guardian article

No it's a great example of some arseholes con people. Not all wooo is about money.

Well I think there is a world of difference between talking about angels or a spiritual world and trying to persuade someone that they should abandon their treatment when they have something as serious as cancer.

A poster upthread was talking about the thin end of a wedge. That is a very black and white view for anyone to take. For example, some people take echinacea to ward off colds. I don't think there is any scientific evidence that it works but mainstream places like Boots sell it, and arnica. There are things that cannot be explained. I see someone who gives me a bad vibe, you feel that someone is off with you but you can't quite put your finger on why. I probably wouldn't be able to prove that. I also stand by my comment on the other thread that love cannot be proven.

I think that if you are saying everything has to have evidence no matter what it's about otherwise it's a lie or potentially damaging is shutting down debate and shows a lack of ability to apply common sense.

If indigo has ever linked to her site then, yes I agree, it's not cool.

Is that video not in breach of the Cancer Act and therefore illegal?

If you can bear it, have a look at some of his other videos.

Nobody forced her but somebody persuaded her. That must have been awful to watch.

I used to write advertising copy for a line of mineral-enriched products (can't say what, as my words are still on the packaging ) We used to make a game out of finding words that sound therapeutic, but aren't legally misleading health claims. Trouble is, so many really want to believe a cream/liquid/pill/ritual can make them better, they skip over "said to help" and interpret "invigorating" any way they want. I'd love critical thinking to be a compulsory school subject.

Ok having seen that video I retract my last post.

One poster doesn't stand for the others though.

Has indigo ever indicated who that was? It's a huge statement if it's not true - words fail me. I really couldn't put in to words how awful it would be.

But no one can disprove that, can they?

I know spiritual guides are used in some high profile cases by police as a last resort. Some seem to work! others don't.

I don't believe in god,hell, heaven. I like listening to other peoples views on it. I certainly don't think a thread about 'I think there is a ghost in my toilet' walks hand in hand with FGM. That's a massive over reaction.

How is small children performing a play retelling a story from our cultural heritage in any way comparable with believing that stray feathers come from angels.

Garlic - "I was brought up and, later, trained to critically evaluate that which is presented by others as truth. Often, I'm inadequately informed to take a position so I do have to take a lot on faith: the discovery of the Higgs boson, for example, the existence of water on Mars, and that I have DNA. Were I living in mediaeval times, I'd be taking on a lot of balderdash as fact because the credible authorities were the church. Luckily for me, we have more reliable sources these days" In 500 years time someone might be saying exactly the same about what we believe today about science as it is constantly evolving. I agree with you that we should all critically evaluate stuff but if some people's experience leads them to a different conclusion than yours it does not always mean they are wrong.

I have lost a friend to cancer who might have survived, or at least survived longer, had she not been convinced that she could fight it with homeopathy rather than conventional medicine. That does not mean all homeopathy should be and never spoken of, she was an adult and she made her own decisions, nobody forced her.

I found the thread in General Health you mentioned Maryz, where Indigo recommended the eye bloke.

I googled - He has a website and charges a lot of money for his 'health' products, retreats, seminars, courses etc etc etc

He also does videos. Here he is on how to cure skin cancer.

Oh, and my children have dressed up an sung songs about all sorts of things that don't exist- Cinderella, for example.

I don't hate talk about angels. I don't like people believing in them because their duvet's shedding feathers.

Drum-banging alert ... Calling someone delusional or deluded is NOT AN INSULT. They're either honest concerns* about mental wellness, or equally honest concerns for the speaker's vulnerability.

Hallucinatory experiences feel more 'real' than reality (which is one of the markers - the other being "how likely is it, given what I know about everyday life?") I recall a few MN threads where I've been one of the posters gently encouraging an OP to call an ambulance while others, shockingly, empathised with her other-worldly experience. The posters did get medical help, thank goodness.

We see deluded posters all the time, particularly on Relationships. Self-delusion and delusion by others can be equally harmful.

• OK, not always meant kindly or honestly, but on SRP threads I believe they usually are. I desperately want to defend those words against being taken for insults!

Softly- she said she had found
Mumsnetters lost children- you can't possibly think that's OK can you?

So you hate talk about angels but you don't mind your dc dressing as one and singing about a god that doesn't exist ?

I don't know if indigo actually was. I teach/coach a sport and regularly talk about it - does that mean I'm advertising it?