Can we have a proper 'woo' topic?

Not answering for Unreal, but I feel anxious about so many people's willingness to believe what is evidently false. This applies to believing everything the Daily Mail says, as much as everything the church or your local psychic says.

Third way it think the word woo sums it up very well.

What is "my nonsense" Unreal? What have I asked you to believe that causes you anxiety?

NC for this and flameproof onsie donned.

Firstly, please could the word woo be dropped as it's erm, puerile and derogatory spring to mind for starters. Pick something else that doesn't have such a confrontational connotation.

The situation here whereby some people want to discuss 'otherly' topics and others want to shout them down is pretty prevalent internet-wide

Here's how discussions involving Christians vs Atheists was sorted on one large site which is fairly strictly moderated.
"Acceptable civil discussion includes explaining your own beliefs, but respectfully accepting that others have the right to make up their own minds and arrive at their own beliefs for themselves. Discussing those differences is fine too, as long as it is not done in a patronising, insulting, demeaning, or otherwise uncivil manner. And it is unacceptable to insist that your own personal beliefs and interpretations are incontrovertible fact and that those with other beliefs and interpretations are clearly wrong/stupid/evil/etc."
further info here
boards.fool.co.uk/board-reopened-please-read-12811345.aspx

Okay, so bear with..

Extrapolating that attitude towards discussion of 'otherly' topics and to avoid the need for strict moderation, here's an idea.

There is a vast difference between facts and opinions/beliefs. Clearly stating which is which can save all of the nastiness and thread-derailing usually seen in these types of discussions.

e.g. If you said 'I found an angel-feather' it instantly pushes all the buttons on the 'claimed as fact'-obsessed brigade and they can't wait to tell you birds have feathers and angels aren't real, because the way you worded your statement inferred to them that you stated a fact. And they'll argue about it forever how you shouldn't make claims, there's no evidence, ad infinitum.

However, if you'd said 'I found a feather today, I choose to believe /it's my opinion that it's an angel's/it shows an angelic influence" etc. then said brigade have nothing to argue about. You have clearly stated a belief or opinion, you have not claimed anything is a universal truth which they must challenge, you have not said it's a fact so they cannot challenge you to provide evidence.

If everyone could just try that very simple approach, then it's my opinion that discussions of 'otherly' subjects could take place as long as it was made crystal clear that what was being said was opinion, belief or as is indeed now is the case for Mindfulness, verifiable fact.

There's a danger of doing the "all beliefs are equal" thing here. I think it might have been Manatee who said years ago something that stuck with me, and I paraphrase, "if I said that rain was hamsters weeing in the sky, would you give my beliefs equal validity?"

Don't worry, woo-ers, you'll probably get more people being arsed to comment on this thread than on any dedicated board. FWR was hardly over-run with the site stuff thread participants once the blood was let.

Lady - Since you asked, I don't do TM as I associate it with 'foggy' woo. I do mindfulness mediations several times a day :)

I get that TM does wonders for some people, it's just the way I was taught by the people who taught me ...

I'm going to pick you up on your argument, too, Dione, I'm afraid. I used to murmur quiet pleasantries to woo proponents, even understanding why they believe what they do and, sometimes, supporting them. Then a bunch of shit happened to me, which was entirely human-generated and which I was asked to blame on metaphysical causes. This opened my eyes VERY widely to the importance of truth, logic & fact as the only defences against gaslighting. Faith is constantly used against its believers as a weapon of control. As I wrote above, fact is spectacular in itself - my words here come not from bitterness, but from the discovery that clarity's far more wonderful than fog. And woo is foggy!

I agree. I am a very non woo person (am an atheist too) and I find 'woo' discussions very interesting (the same for religious discussions) as the people I could talk about this sort of stuff in RL generally have similar opinions to me. A lot of debates are just steamrolled over and I would like to see some more reasoned/considerate discussions.

Dione do you really think that people who don't believe your nonsense are just saying it because they are trying to get rid of their anxieties?

Don't you see that it's your blatant self centred beliefs that give me anxiety in the first place? Until I read your post there I was feeling quite calm. Now I'm anxious and insecure. Thanks for that.

I think you misread my post Cote. What said was "they cannot tolerate beliefs that are different than their own". Not that they believe "anything and everything".

Immaculate conception ... it was an angel wot done it.

Scousadelic, I am as "vitriolic and sneering" - if that's how you must describe healthy, evidence-based, scepticism - towards godly woo as any other woo. Jesus didn't exist. Ghosts don't exist. I can provide hard evidence for these statements; they're not 'faith' or 'beliefs'. There is absolutely masses of weird, amazing, fascinating & freaky stuff in the real, evidence-based world that makes woo look like baked beans. I'll never understand why those who look for 'something out there / in here' don't actually look to science instead of making stuff up :)

We are all made of stardust = scientific fact!

We are all made of angel souls = unnecessary bollocks; what's wrong with stardust?!

Well, you would if you were a little more secure and fortunate.

According to you

You think that I believe "anything and everything" Cote? PMSL.

You're right, Dione. It is because of our insecurities that we say feathers fall off birds and not angels.

If we were happy and secure (like you), we would just believe anything and everything.

Arts tenting? WTF? I meant attention.

Bravo Indigo for bringing this to the arts tenting to MNHQ. However experience on MN shows that if you have a dedicated forum, those who are intolerant and close minded will be attracted like a moth to a flame.

Some people are bigots. They cannot tolerate beliefs that are different to their own and use such threads/forums to release the anger/pain of their everyday existence. Just look at FWR board. MRAs come on and goad and vent. Posters are regularly dismissive of disabilities and SEN on the Special Needs boards.

Some people are so unfortunate that they feel the need to target and rubbish others. A dedicated forum will not protect you from the way they deal with their own anxieties, insecurities and pain.

Well someone has to cut through this hyper analysis.

The only good thing that would come out of it is that I would know who the belieeevers are so I wouldn't have to engage with them on threads.

There's enough bullshit in the world, let's no add another layer.

I'm sure I remember MN/Tech took quite a dim view of it the last time some MNers tried to take over some unused topics for themselves, Maryz

I do think there is a particular type of vitriol and sneering that seems to be reserved for this stuff though so a separate topic might be worth a try.

I did omit the "but woo is bollocks and has no place claiming equal or superior standing to feminist or SN threads" in the interests of harmony, but unrealhousewife brought me back down to earth.

Woo is a fascinating feminist thread in the making, actually.

No, no no. Woo IS fictional fantasy and has no place here, private or otherwise. Normalising this crapola won't help anyone. It deserves to be exposed and doubted and questioned.

Actually, I do get it. As I say, I have experience of this battle, even if some think it is not the same (which baffles me).

On reflection, I should be fighting for what the woo-ers want.

If you get this, can I make some suggestions? Have a 101 thread (or a number of them) where you can direct the basics derailers. Ignore the blatant piss takers and trolls (in the sense of derailing). Report anything against Talk Guidelines.

But, above all, examine the sources. Even from your own "side".

Feel strongly about it do you Maryz? .

I think it makes no difference whether you get a woo topic or not. It is still a public forum and anyone can comment if they wish. I'd quite like a topic that's all about the things I'm interested in and only people that agree with me would be allowed on it. Hmm, what could go wrong...