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Disablist language and deletions

182 replies

BOFtastic · 17/03/2014 01:43

Sort of on the back of another thread, I've noticed recent deletions of the word 'moron' as disablist.

I''ve done some googling. It was used among a couple of other older terms, idiot and imbecile, by Henry H. Goddard, a psychologist at the turn of the 19th century to grade people of "low intelligence", and it was taken up to justify eugenics. So distasteful, yes.

Is it just that Goddard actually coined 'moron', and the other terms were pre-existing? Goddard himself disavowed it shortly afterwards, and it hasn't been in use medically for a very long time. I very much doubt that people who use the word are directly referring to learning disability- the word in that sense is long-obsolete. Much like the word 'cretin', which has a similar history.

Language changes, we all know that.

The issue gets more clear-cut, I think, when similarly-originated terms are used as insults separate to their initial meaning. It is NOT ok- regardless of the speaker's meaning and motivation- to, for example, use 'gay' to mean 'pathetic', because it is still primarily used to refer to people's sexual orientation, and making the word an insult is demeaning to them. Also words like 'retard', because alongside its general use, it is still used to abuse and insult people with learning disabilities.

That, in my opinion, should be the rule of thumb: if the initial meaning is long obsolete, fine; if it still gets used in a discriminatory sense about actually-existing groups of marginalised and oppressed people, not fine.

So after thinking about it, I don't think I agree that the word 'moron' should be deleted as disablist language.

So what do people think?

OP posts:
AmberLeaf · 19/03/2014 20:22

Why call a NT person 'socially disabled' to highlight their character flaws though?

Why use the word disabled in such a negative way?

I use the term 'socially disabled' and 'social cripple' to describe an NT person who was being deliberately obtuse or offensive and never to describe a person who has special needs

You are using a current term [disabled] for a person who has no choice and isn't 'deliberately' anything, as/in a perjorative, to describe someone who in your opinion chooses to be an arsehole [why can't we just call an arsehole an arsehole BTW? arseholes can't be offended can they]

You say you would never use the term to describe a person with special needs, which is odd IMO, as in some cases it would be perfectly acceptable to call someone with autism 'socially disabled'

This is entirely the problem with things like this, words/terms with legitimate and non offensive meaning, get highjacked to be used as insults towards people that are arseholes.

Re Moron, using that word isn't something Ive given much thought towards, the song about Gordon from the 70s rings a bell and I know the historical meaning, but it isn't really a word Ive ever used. But I have read about it on MN and can understand why some find it offensive.

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 19/03/2014 20:12

'wanker' Smile

RaRaTheNoisyLion · 19/03/2014 20:11

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limitedperiodonly · 19/03/2014 20:11

PolterGoose I didn't insult or confront her to her face. Not because I'm a nice person but because there'd have been no point. She has behavioural issues and wouldn't or couldn't understand.

It wasn't that I didn't want to hurt her feelings. I didn't want to make mine worse.

But am I not allowed to let off steam about her behaviour? Which was pretty fucking appalling.

zzzzz · 19/03/2014 20:09

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PolterGoose · 19/03/2014 20:07

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NurseyWursey · 19/03/2014 20:06
Grin
zzzzz · 19/03/2014 20:04

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NurseyWursey · 19/03/2014 20:02

It was a hypothetical

NurseyWursey · 19/03/2014 20:02

I think you might have missed the point of my post zzzz Grin

zzzzz · 19/03/2014 20:01

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zzzzz · 19/03/2014 20:00

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zzzzz · 19/03/2014 19:58

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NurseyWursey · 19/03/2014 19:57

It's just getting really difficult now because when someone hijacks a word we've used generally for a while and uses it to offend a certain group of people ie disabled people, it's not always well known

It's like 'cow' being suddenly seen as a disablist slur.

zzzzz · 19/03/2014 19:56

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PolterGoose · 19/03/2014 19:56

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limitedperiodonly · 19/03/2014 19:53

So how do I describe the person who giggled and said something very offensive when I told her my mum had died plenty?

Or more importantly, how would you describe her behaviour, seeing as you have a social impairment which isn't deliberate but presumably has caused upset?

I ignored it because I know her and know that she has some difficulties with social interaction, though I don't really know what they are. Neither do I care.

She didn't mean to hurt me. She often responds inappropriately. But I still think that under the circumstances that was mighty big of me.

So, can you can you be big too? Or are you going to carry on playing social impairment top trumps?

PlentyOfPubeGardens · 19/03/2014 19:53

Well were they being deliberately offensive or not, limited? It's only in your most recent post you've introduced the idea that it might be 'inadvertent'. Up until then, you were saying it was fine to use 'socially disabled' or 'social cripple' to describe someone who was being deliberately socially offensive.

If someone is obviously being deliberately offensive, I like to use the term 'arsehole'.

Nerfmother · 19/03/2014 19:40

Limited - I would use 'socially inept' and wouldn't understand the being pulled up.

BOFtastic · 19/03/2014 19:37

I would delete 'cripple' too, as in that form it is still used as an insulting/offensive description of someone with a disability.

I think I would leave to stand its use as part of a phrase like "cripplingly shy", say. It's a grey area...

OP posts:
PlentyOfPubeGardens · 19/03/2014 19:34

Yes I do find it offensive. I have a social impairment. I am never 'deliberately socially offensive' Hmm

I agree with Nerf - if you use 'disabled' as part of an insult you are pretty much guaranteed to come across as offensive to people with disabilities and those who care about them. The word 'cripple' is nasty whatever the context.

limitedperiodonly · 19/03/2014 19:32

As it happens I did say 'socially inept' on another thread nerf

In the context the person I was talking about knew damn well they were being offensive and I thought I made that clear.

Yet I was pulled up on that as well.

So how would you describe people who transgress social rules either inadvertently or, more importantly, deliberately?

And that's what I suspect is happening here in order to shut down debate.

Nerfmother · 19/03/2014 19:31

Nothing wrong with damn! was correcting spelling from post above!

TwelveLeggedWalk · 19/03/2014 19:27

Interesting thread. I would really struggle to see the words 'idiot/idiotic' or 'stupid' as disablist - unless addressed directly at someone with learning difficulties perhaps, but then even the mildest insult becomes offensive in that context.

'Speshel' I've often interpreted as being a bit entitled/princessy, as in "they think they're special" rather than special needs.

MyChemicalGerard · 19/03/2014 19:27

What's wrong with damn? Tis a good word :) Unfortunately there are so many words anyone can take offense too its hard as you will never ever please everybody.

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