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getting together information and support for EVERYONE in the child protection system

287 replies

Spero · 21/01/2014 16:50

I am posting here, mainly because I am not sure what I am doing and I don't want to do anything against the rules or contrary to the site ethos.

In a nutshell, a lot of us have been contributing to various threads since before Christmas about the child protection system in the UK and all the controversy that has arisen since the case of Alessandra Pacchieri and the issue of 'forced adoption'.

We have perspectives from every part of the child protection system - there are birth parents, adoptive parents, social workers, lawyers etc and we think it could be a good idea to try to do something to bring us all together, to help people get access to information that is balanced and useful, particularly if they are facing care proceedings or worried they might be.

At the moment, we are thinking a blog could help, with different people providing short posts about their experiences and providing links to other sources that we know are credible and reliable. This could be very valuable for all of us - I am a lawyer for e.g. but I would love to know more about what doctors working in child protection are looking out for, and I would like to get more perspectives from birth parents about what they think is good or bad about the system.

We are also wondering if there could be a separate topic in 'Parenting' - Dealing with child Protection issues or similar, which could link to the blog, once we get if off the ground.

So sorry quite a lot of info there. Trying to précis

  1. We have a lot of untapped knowledge and experience and would like to pull it altogether to provide a good source of reliable and balanced advice
  2. We would like to start a blog, does anyone want to contribute or can think of snappy name?
  3. We would like to use the power of mumsnet to steer people towards our information and provide another platform for discussion and debate
4.What's the best way of going about this?

Any comments, thoughts welcomed.

OP posts:
Spero · 29/01/2014 15:46

Thats a brill acronym, I will put it up now!

OP posts:
AnyFucker · 29/01/2014 15:15

That ALERT is great

Whitershadeofpale · 29/01/2014 15:09

I think its looking great!

I was thinking that maybe we need something concise that sums up our recommendations, kind of an antithesis of 'the golden rules'. This is my idea but please don't feel like you have to say its good.

I thought of the acronym ALERT standing for.

Attention
Listen
Engage
Respond
Trust

Attention- draw Social Services attention if you feel that there are children at risk or who need additional support.

Listen- If the Social Worker is telling you somethingm no matter how hard it is to hear, try to really listen and take in what is being said.

Engage- Always attend meetings, allow Social Workers access to you and the child/ren involved. Show you realise how serious it is and engage with each step of the process.

Respond- If you are asked to do something then act on it. If Social Services raise concerns about the state of your house, clean-up. Your drinking, seek help. A violent relationship, make steps towards ending it etc etc.

Trust- trust that Social Workers aren't involved as they want to steal your child, trust that they are working within a legal framework and most importantly trust that they are working in the best interest of your child, even if you disagree on what that is.

Spero · 29/01/2014 13:48

Thanks nose!

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NoseWiperExtraordinaire · 29/01/2014 12:58

The site is looking very lovely Smile

I agree is it has a very professional feel and the info is user-friendly (although if Really Picky I liked the warmth of the browns/oranges/autumnal colours on the original blog, but then they are my favourites!)

And so much on there already! Really valuable info on threshold criteria etc. - it is info that was explained to our family at the time of proceedings, but it would have so helped to have had something straightforward like that to have made reference to outside of legal meetings etc. There is so much to take in at the time.

BeyondTheLimitsOfAcceptability · 29/01/2014 10:03

I've had exams so have been off mn for a few days, but wow, look at what you've done in just a few days! Agree with AF - I am in awe. Flowers

Spero · 29/01/2014 07:44

It is perhaps more understandable when you realise just how much of our time we have devoted to Arguing With People on the Internet about this.

the upside is - we are now very clear about what we need to say!

And the input from others who are NOT lawyers or social workers is invaluable and it is their input which will make this work.

OP posts:
AGnu · 28/01/2014 23:57

It looks amazing! It's professional but not in a scary way. Easy to navigate with clear, understandable advice. I'm so impressed by how quickly you've managed to pull all this together. Flowers

NoseWiperExtraordinaire · 28/01/2014 23:29

Me too!

AnyFucker · 28/01/2014 23:28

I am in awe.

Spero · 28/01/2014 22:35

Brilliant post just gone up from mumsnetter re emotional abuse!

to think, just a few weeks ago NONE of this existed. Its ruddy brilliant.

OP posts:
Spero · 28/01/2014 21:23

Thanks Westmoreland!

Zoo, we now have a separate substance abuse section, if there is anything else you can think of which would be useful to have in it, let us know.

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MiscellaneousAssortment · 28/01/2014 20:29

weregoingtothezoo your post is so moving and eye opening at the same time. Its important.

As humans we simplify the world into black and white, good and bad, angels and devils, heroes and villians. But real life isn't like that and if people are truly honest, our own lives don't stand up to scrutiny in that way either. We are all shades of grey in different ways and at different times.

But it's easier to vilify people, to put them in boxes, to make them 'the other' and dismiss them. It makes us feel safe, 'ohh, it wouldnt happen to me', in the same way that people think they can recognise bad people with their 'cold dead eyes' (or whatever). And its easy to think in stereotypes - professional = beyond repproach, middle class = perfect parents etc. But in reality, it doesn't work like that. The world doesnt work like that. Humans don't work like that.

And of course what happened was wrong. You know that. And you made a huge sacrifice. When the choice was there before you, you chose your childs life before your own. You chose this pain, this loss, this grief. It doesn't make you evil, it makes you flawed.

WestmorlandSausage · 28/01/2014 20:19

i'm here!

Spero · 28/01/2014 20:05

zoo, I have added your posts about GP referrals etc to the 'general myth busting bit' but I think it probably deserves a section of its own as drink/drugs problems are massive issues in the cases I do.

But I will have to wait until Westmorland is back to sort it out! But check out the site now and see what you think, at least it is up there.

OP posts:
Spero · 28/01/2014 19:47

This is exactly what we want to do - not to have people having to reinvent the wheel when they are going through awful trauma.

Standing on the shoulders of giants all the way!

If we can pool our knowledge and share it, this will be very powerful.

I may have a journalist interested which would be a good way of increasingly publicity for this; I will keep you posted.

OP posts:
MiscellaneousAssortment · 28/01/2014 19:43

Spero that's absolutely ok, will spur me on to finish and improve it :)

Just wanted to say btw, that I'm really happy to be part of this great endeavour. I don't know much about children's services and social work in general, but I do know how hard it was to find any information as a disabled parent, and how quickly I out grew the info I found. It's terrifying and disorientating and so much opinion got presented as fact. I can only imagine how awful it is when it's an even more terrifying situation of an investigation etc.

Absence of Fact and High Quality Advice makes a bad situation exponentially worse.

I've been following the whole err, back story that has lead you to do create this online resource, and I applaud you :)

I was lucky as I had 'status' in my previous healthy life which gave me the confidence to question things, but also left me unprepared for how you are treated when you turn into a 'vulnerable person'. I also had a very helpful trio of friends (a barrister, a bureaucrat and a paeditrician) to find things out for me and give me back bone and on occasion fight for me when I couldn't do it anymore. Even then it was a two year nightmare, including expensive specialist legal advice, before I got anywhere near the help I needed in the way that the council were obligated by law to help me. Most of that was because of misinformation and lack of existing procedures and processes for dealing with disabled parents.

I've been increasingly aware that I have this accumulation of knowledge that is rare, and must surely be of use to people in my position if only I could get it out to them. However, being disabled means it's not something I can do from scratch on my own. I'm really happy to feel that by adding a bit to your initiative, I can get done of that knowledge out there.

If this website can help even one person, it will have been a success.

AnywhereOverTheRainbow · 28/01/2014 19:37

weregoingtothezoo

What a heartfelt post. I am at loss for words, crying ;(

Spero · 28/01/2014 19:27

Thanks for that info zoo, we will definitely include it.

I know its not much comfort now but I am sure you will meet your daughter again one day and I am sure she will be so happy to know how much you loved her.

thank you so much for sharing your story - as a lawyer it is easy for me to sometimes over look that we are dealing with immense grief that remains long after I leave the court room.

OP posts:
weregoingtothezoo · 28/01/2014 19:22

And www.nta.nhs.uk/uploads/families2012vfinali.pdf should probably be referenced in the first bit I posted. Maybe with a line that says:
For parents with drug and alcohol problems, entering into treatment is a protective factor towards keeping their children with them, and meeting their emotional and physical needs in the future.
and then that reference. Sorry for the incompleteness.

Spero · 28/01/2014 19:21

Lilka - please just write what you want and what you feel comfortable with. My perspective is just a lawyer's one so I may not even be aware of some issues that are very important to others.

I am sure whatever you write will resonate with and help someone.

Nothing on this site is fixed in stone, we want it to be constantly evolving and updating so it is genuinely helpful.

if you are not happy with what you write later on, we can take it down, edit it, add to it, whatever you want.

This isn't 'my' blog, this is for whoever wants to contribute.

My only rule is that you don't make assertions about FACTS that you can't prove. but your own experiences, your own pain or your own joys are yours to describe or not as you wish.

OP posts:
Spero · 28/01/2014 19:17

I'm so sorry zoo.

But thank you for writing this and for letting us use it.

I am hoping that even with all this pain, you can feel some comfort that you will be a light for some others who are travelling down a very dark road.

I am putting this on the website now.

OP posts:
Lilka · 28/01/2014 19:17

Sorry, were not weare

Lilka · 28/01/2014 19:17

That's such a moving and beautiful post weare I'm a bit tearful now. It will be a great addition to the site I am sure Thanks

Spero would be totally happy to write about adoptive parent peceptions of the system. Is there any topic within that you would especially like me to cover, or misconceptions to address? I have a few thoughts trailing round my head, but not sure what is best to cover?

weregoingtothezoo · 28/01/2014 19:05

This is taken almost directly from the hardest stuff I've written on my blog. I'll try and shorten it if necessary.

I am 32, and my birth daughter, who is now 7, was adopted a year ago. She was taken into care after 3 reported incidences of being drunk in charge of a child. I got her home 6 months later, but then it happened again. She never spent another night in my care, or even another hour unsupervised in my company. I continued with drinking binges after she was removed, until I conceded defeat and that I couldn’t get well for her, that Social Services should do as they were planning, which was that for her own best interests she should be placed with adoptive parents. Each of the initial incidences was reported to Social Services by my family members.

I am an alcoholic. I never signed up for alcoholism, in my life as a single parent with a successful professional career. Alcoholism is no respecter of gender, ethnicity, social class, education level or religion. It affects the way that you think. You think it won’t be that bad. This time I’ll be able to stop. It’ll never really happen to me. I’m in control, I’m not that bad, I can still take care of my child, no-one will find out. Lies, all lies, to justify that the drink is ok, and pretend that it hasn’t taken that primary place in my life above my girl, my career, my health, my finances, my God, and my self respect. I couldn’t even stop for my beautiful, creative, loving, and very special daughter. It is a madness of the mind, the emotions, the body and most importantly the soul. This is what proves incontrovertibly to me that I had become powerless to stop in my own strength

This is the worst grief I have ever experienced. I was 9 months sober by the time she was placed. I never stopped loving her, and I have never stopped missing her, and longing that things could have been different, that my recovery could have started sooner, that I could have been the best person for her to be with. I have had to admit that, for her own best interests, it was better for her to be adopted and settled with loving and secure parents, than remain in the care system in the hope that I got well. Except that then, I did get well, and have faced losing her, in sobriety.

If I want peace, for and within myself, I must learn to live with the inconsistencies of Social Services. I know many women who are alcoholics who have done what I did who still have their children, either because Social Services never found out, or because they decided that despite the problems the children were still better off with their parents than removed from them. When I am crying “it’s not fair” I am trying to wriggle out from what I have done – and what I have done is extremely wrong and damaging to a young child who was powerless to escape from it. Children cannot and should not have to wait until their parents get well. This is the spirit of the law in this area of child protection and it is true and it was true for my daughter. However I do want to also highlight that she never missed school, was always fed and clean and bathed and we read stories, we spent endless hours making things, and there had been no other concerns at any times, Social Services could find no emotional or psychological problems, apart from the normal distress caused by separation from her mother. There is an assumption that children who are removed are unclean, unfed, absent from school, and there are concerns from all who encounter them. Not always.

And I must grieve in silence and in private. The world does not want to hear of my grief, the primal wound that results from a mother forcibly separated from her child, because it is an unpleasant story, and I am the villain in it. And yet I must grieve. In the midst of all this, I am hurting and I have relinquished the way I had learned to cope with pain, in substances. I miss her and I love her and this hurts every part of me and some days I feel like it will consume me. I cry out to God that I am hurting and that I am grieving in the midst of terrible guilt and shame and I can’t sort all this mess out. This isn’t clean grief – having lost my mum almost 3 years ago, I know that grief too – but that is right, in the natural order of things, because children at some stage should lose their parents. My mum was young, but still, it is a clean and acceptable grief. For my daughter these feelings are complicated. I love my little girl, and I miss her with a pain that is physical, in the way it eats me up, she is lost and she is gone. I am joining one of society’s most unwanted and disliked groups, but giving this process a voice, to bring my shame and grief and hurt out of the dark where it cannot resolve, into the light might help someone else, perhaps who is facing this threat. And as I continue to cry out in pain, in prayer, for my daughter, that she will grow up loved, and if at all possible secure, and healed.