MNHQ Racism policy

I agree Its

I don't think what we are looking at here is a "legally actionable" case either, I think it is about accepting that being Northern Irish (or English, or Scottish etc) is a protected characteristic and we shouldn't be subject to discrimination or harassment as a result of that characteristic.

Ethic origin is protected.

Definition from Wikipedia is here

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_origin

can't I be protected under that then?

I actually think it is splitting hairs and pedantic to say just because I'm northern irish I can't be protected on here from racism.

It's horrible either way. As I said, legally it might not be actionable, but to say "well you're not quite protected enough legally so I'm going to do nothing even though you're telling me you feel it's racist" just makes you sound like a bit of a prat really.

See? Even second hand citizens in the 'official' records.

Maybe that can be the next mums net campaign. Make Northern Ireland a country. Most people I know from Northern Ireland that I have met refer to themselves as Northern Irish first. If it could be recognised by the international Olympic committee it would really help the golfers too as well as the racism policy for mumsnet.

We are a province. Not a country. Bah.

However the ISO list of the subdivisions of the UK is supplied by British Standards and the Office for National Statistics and so uses "country" to describe England, Scotland and Wales.[3] Northern Ireland, in contrast, is described as a "province" in the same lists.[3]

Also

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constituent_country#United_Kingdom

wannabe - from wikipdeia

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_of_the_United_Kingdom

As an aside.

I was googling about Northern Ireland but can find nothing to say it is a nation. An NI citizen can have dual nationality, I could own two passports should I desire. But I cannot be "Northern Irish."
That said, I have selected that option on several monitoring forms over the years.

There were some whispers about creating a new flag for NI, that doesn't have the red hand of ulster on it. I think it is time this happened. That seems to be a hangover from the gerrymandering and unionist rule days. We have moved on, and so our flag should reflect that.

That's really interesting Pan and good to know.

Votes for HoneyDragon for PM.

HQ sometimes, I have noticed with few other threads on this level, to be soemhow anxious and over-worried to do the wrong thing...and usually ends up doing exactly that...the wrong decision.

Then you come across as patronising, paternalistic to massive numbers of posters who objetc...and you seem to be very resistant to criticism..it at least doesn't elicit more than loads of apologies, which come across like humiliating slaps in the face.

In my professional life, my experience is that the ones with the least competence are the ones who have the most anxiety making decisions and usually like to stick to the most painful version of following procedures, which make no sense in the first place.

Please MNHQ, re-consider and make statement which goes way beyond what Rowan has been responding.

Some of my closest friends are English

Why Thankyou Tee, I knew not you cared about me so.

Those inferring it doesn't matter because its mumsnet and the Internet are being unfair. In real life it's easy to walk away from people being racist. And harder to walk away from being called on it.

On here, you can spout a load of crap and then fuck off and do something else, but if it isn't deleted, than it remains another little festering boil of racism that others can read and take heart in.

So any racism, disabilism or general bigotry should be nixed, till the authors realise they that we will not listen. Not ever.

Mrs - this bit is factually wrong, both in terms of identity and by legislation:
Technically MNHQ are right, neither the Northern Irish, the Scots, the Welsh or the English constitute a race or a national group, the Eq Act and it's guidelines are crystal clear on that, and it's one of my jobs to work with it.

Using the OP or HQ's response aren't the best examples to establish a case of 'racism' (amongst other better examples), though anyone with half a brain and a bit of sense would see the OP (and some posters) as being inflammatory and ignorant. The world of equalities is fast evolving and open to new challenges as the population changes (eg ageism is now 'hot' as the demograph re age has changed) and attitudes commonly-held are much slower to catch up. But that doesn't mean we can't devine racist attitudes from people's words and behaviours, whether it 'qualifies' legally, and so HQ can deal with those with impunity.

I also avoid the Scots-goading posts/threads. You see 'jokes' as if they don't really matter and HQ have unfortunately been slow in the past on seeing them off. Treating GB/Irish discriminatory stuff has been quite different to dealing with skin colour racism as the former is often seen as comments and actions towards 'our own' regions, whereas against non-white people it's seen as far worse. Oddly.

So yes to this OP, the application of the 'racism policy' needs upshifting to be much more practically inclusive and defensive towards peoples' characteristics.

Absolutely, Holey.

Perhaps our mistake is expecting a bit of common decency from English people?

I missed the thread being reopened isireland I was fuming earlier and gave mumsnet a wide berth for the afternoon but I assumed that it was only a formality for it to be deleted given the contents I read. I am very disappointed. I should also point out that the 'apology' above smacks of the I am sorry you felt that way apology we all use from time to time when we know we are in the right, just saying.

Well said Holey.

The legislation doesn't mention Black Asian and Minority Ethnic.

So why would you think those were the only groups the law applied to? When the law says something different?

It is ironic that sticking to the "rules" is paramount yet sticking to rules that are also laws is, well, not so important.

Holey spot on.

So bigotry is ok as long as MN approved nationalities / races are the targets?

A list would be helpful

Neun - apparently not, according to the original thread. Even though nationality is protected under the Equality Act and even though they said they characterised Irish as a Nationality not a race. they only look at BAME people. Or have done in the past.

I am sorry, I cannot understand you Rowan and HQ. Totally wrong decisions and reactions.

You don't have to be so nitty-gritty with the legal term 'racist'.

Please think of being racist, fascist, an extreme bigot or xenophobe as being on the same 'disgusting' level.

Can't be that difficult. But it seems to be the case. Strange

Thankfully though the OP wrote Irish in the original thread which is a different nationality which should have allowed Mumsnet to delete for stupidity at the very least

They said they can't delete someone for being stupid.

And since so many of us corrected the OP about it being Northern Ireland, I think we gave up any protection MNHQ consider the Irish to have.

Can't have it both ways apparently. That's the whole problem.