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Why we temporarily banned Anyfucker and what next

1005 replies

JustineMumsnet · 24/10/2013 21:18

Hi all,
So as many have pointed out there are an awful lot of threads about AF from last night and today, many of them repeating the same stuff, some of them including misapprehensions.

So we thought it best to state our position on the matter fully here and to lock the other threads so anyone with stuff to say can say it here and it's all easier to follow. (Apols for any difficulties you've had in following all this because of multiple threads - we don't normally allow them but in this case, as there was a fair bit of MNHQ conspiracy theory floating around, we thought it best not to start deleting things today).

So first why did we ban, or more accurately suspend, AF for a week?
As already stated AF did break our Talk Guidelines a lot wrt troll-hunting, PAs and generally aggressive behaviour.

We have looked back and found we've sent her nine mails of the 'please stick to Guidelines or we'll have to take further action' variety and we've banned her once before. There have been c. 600 reports of her posts - and there are 1100 cases in our system concerning her one way or another (not including any name changes). We've deleted
posts under the name 'AnyFucker' 185 times (some of those reports will be duplicate reports of the same post, so it's not that we've deleted 185 out of 600 posts reported).

It is not the case that most of these posts were in response to trolls, plenty were against folks most would agree were regular posters. Others were against folks she thought might be trolls but we could see were not. Some were against folks who were subsequently banned.

We haven't actually been able to forensically analyse each of the 600 cases - it really would mean going back through each thread - but we will over the next little while if folks think it necessary.

Some people have been calling for an auto-ban mechanism for posters who are multiply reported - if we had one of these AF would have been likely banned a few more times than she actually has.

We wrote to AF a couple of weeks ago after deleting some of her posts warning that if she crossed the line again we'd have to suspend her and that's what we did yesterday. She wrote back to say she knew it was coming.

We don't take these decisions lightly wrt Mumsnetters who've been contributing for so long and whom we know so well. We agree AF's a fantastic poster who goes out her way to help others but we're not talking isolated incidents here and it's very often not directed at actual trolls. Often we're talking about aggression/personal attacks/accusations of trolling against other Mumsnetters who AF disagrees with.

Plenty of people today have cited examples of this type of behaviour. Some have also spoken of an orthodoxy on the relationships board which is difficult to diverge from and which puts them off posting there. And of course, plenty of others have cited examples of AF's kindness and support on those same boards.

But what would you really have us do? Ignore the PAs against Mumsnetters? Ignore those posters who report such PAs to us? We are not talking exclusively PAs on trolls here. If you've been following today's threads you have to accept that. Believe me, we have not been trigger happy here. The last thing we want is for AF, or posters like AF who offer so much to Mumsnetters, to leave MN. But we have a few rules for very good reasons we think. Without them, Mumsnet would be incredibly insular and one dimensional and very unwelcoming to newcomers. We have to accept that if folks can't live with those rules then, ultimately, that's their decision.

I think it's worth saying what we do believe in, here at MNHQ, because although the site has grown, these values (if that's not too aggrandising) really haven't changed since it started.

We believe that the pooling of knowledge and advice makes parents' lives easier.
We believe in tolerance of differing opinions and in letting the conversation flow wherever possible.
We believe in listening and engaging and being transparent as much as we can.

We do have things we don't tolerate (which have been honed and refined over the years by collective user experience) because we think they are less likely to promote the things MN values. Namely personal attacks, deliberately inflammatory posts, posts that break law/hate speech.

We will also delete things that are downright mean and obscene (though clearly this is a matter of judgement).

We have never billed MN as a safe haven. It is open and searchable and public so can never be as safe as a closed, heavily moderated or pre-moderated environment would be.

It is a largely female space and we think that is incredibly valuable in a male dominated internet/ world. But it is not an exclusively female - it's by parents for parents and it always has been. Men are welcome to post and to express their opinions and we've had many valuable male Mumsnetters over the years.

Quite apart from anything it would both be impractical and possibly illegal to have it otherwise.

Obviously there are things we at MNHQ can do better. We are never going to be entirely consistent in our moderation as we are human and it often come down to fine judgement calls. And we apologise in advance for inconsistencies but can only say we really do try our best.

In the case of this ban/suspension, as many have pointed out, we could have communicated what had happened and why more quickly and more clearly.

Some people have suggested a clear, more widely known "sin bin" procedure and we'll certainly look at that.

We will look at resources and response times generally to reported posts and are working on empowering all HQ mods to post on the boards and to be transparent as possible. (NB this would be easier if HQ mods felt they could post in an atmosphere of tolerance and understanding Grin.)

We do put a lot of energy into investigating and banning trolls. We don't make a fanfare every time we ban someone for obvious reasons - trolls are here for the attention. But I concede that maybe that adds to the atmosphere that we are tolerating/ignoring/doing nothing about trolls. So we will think about that.

We don't have any auto suspend in place but we might look at that based on a large amount of reports of a particular poster.

And as suggested by someone (apols have forgotten who) we'll hold an MNHQ mods webchat with me, Rowan and Rebecca on Friday 8th at lunchtime and will open a thread in advance, so anyone who can't make the chat can post their question.

Please, of course, post your thoughts and further suggestions here before then, or whenever suits.

Sorry for the very long post - thanks to those who've read to the end.

(We'll be locking all the other threads in the next little bit.)

OP posts:
MmeLindor · 25/10/2013 00:04

Passedgo
That's rather patronising, don't you think?

Rowan isn't going all girly and can't cope with the tech. They've been inundated with reports over the past 24 hr and are trying to catch up.

MadameDefarge · 25/10/2013 00:00

'girl thing to do'? wtaf?

MaryZombie · 25/10/2013 00:00

Jesus, whatever about AF, some of the gloaty name hanging is fucking disgraceful.

Are these really adults name changing on an anonymous forum to post childish crap? I hope someone in HQ s updating the GF spreadshit Hmm

passedgo · 24/10/2013 23:57

Rowan you really need to sort out your IT. Your inbox should be selective, you should have the tools with which to sort this. God it's such a girl thing to go all dizzy when the tech gets too much. This is the mumsnet problem. Jesus you can have a remote control heartbeat, you can predict the weather and see the stars with a phone nowadays. Surely a forum full of feisty females should be manageable in a multi-zillion pound organisation in 2013?

Part of me likes that this forum hasn't changed for years, it's now almost retro in its styling. I like that because I believe that function is more important than form and it makes people work harder to be here. But the function part isn't coping any more I don't think.

Anyfuckergate · 24/10/2013 23:53

Did no one try to actually voice talk with Anyfucker, at any point, by skype or phone? Because it is what I would have done, given how prolific she is at posting and the help she has given to others? I think that someone like her really does deserve that curtesy.

As to the giving out possibly private information someone should have been communicating this to her before posting publicly. Although I can understand how busy mn towers must have been today.

However I guess something can be learnt here, for everyone. We are all still learning and growing, I hope that Anyfucker can come back with her head held high (today has demonstrated how she has touched many people) and whilst mnhq re-look at the framework of this community and how to further nurture this environment (which really they do do very well, given the popularity of this site). I guess that we can also learn, to report when needed, to maybe support others more by realizing that behind every screen is a person (well usually, sometimes the cat may type up some utter shite, but hey she's a cat!).

Anyhoo it is late and those darn munchkins will be doing small person talk at stupid o'clock tomorrow, so long and thanks for all the fish.

usualsuspect · 24/10/2013 23:51

Did you work that out on a big blackboard,Liney?

CoolStoryBro · 24/10/2013 23:51

This is hilarious. Threads and threads of people frothing at the mouth, demanding to know "why, why, WHY?!!!" and then when MNHQ tell us why, pages of, "You shouldn't have told us! That's wrong!!" As someone said upthread, you were damned either way. I think it's a perfectly good explanation, and I like AF, the few times I have come into contact with her.

BOF I lol'd at your admission you were a liiiitttttle bit drunk. I was reading last night, presuming that nearly everyone posting was! Grin

LineRunner · 24/10/2013 23:50

It's 0.0026%.

MilllyMollyMully · 24/10/2013 23:48

If there were a ban on name-changing during a poster's first year, would that stop those people who have to name-change for security reasons being troll-hunted the whole time?

If so, that is a great solution to a huge problem.

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme · 24/10/2013 23:46

Rowan this one is still going.

MrsShriek · 24/10/2013 23:46

RowanIsNotAMan (nice new nn doncha fink) would sort out the erm gender confusion Wink

We need GF radar. Or TrollShooters.

Interesting to Ye Olde MNers that GoadyFucker shares initials with SWSNBN
And look how that went
Sigh

JugglingFromHereToThere · 24/10/2013 23:45

As I said upthread all fine but a little slow ....

Just thinking it's been worse than waiting for the official Prince George christening picture Grin 24 hours later + and I still haven't seen it, despite searching BBC News website. Anyone else seen it - they said it'd be out today? Have seen lots of cute pics though of Georgy Porgy (slightly chubby in very cute way) taken immediately before and after the service.

Anyway, as you were ....
Bedtime I think ....

passedgo · 24/10/2013 23:44

I agree with the idea of no namechanging with the first 12 months. Sort the wheat from the chaff.

usualsuspect · 24/10/2013 23:44

It will go down in MN history.

Quoted by nchanging regs to prove they are not trolls.

RosaParksIsBack · 24/10/2013 23:43

Chipping - I feel your pain, our half term started today :( praying for death already :D

reelingintheyears · 24/10/2013 23:43

What next ?

The end of the bottle for me. Sad

NotYoMomma · 24/10/2013 23:43

why remove this this thread? its a good explanation thread and not everyone kicking off will have seen it yet

MurderOfBanshees · 24/10/2013 23:43

Chipping Grin Right, I'll see if I've got bubble wrap..

UnicornsNotRiddenByGrownUps · 24/10/2013 23:42

ThePreHalloweenAFDebacleof2013

ChippingInNeedsANYFUCKER · 24/10/2013 23:42

Banshee - please have him couriered over immediately - he's just what I need tonight!!

usualsuspect · 24/10/2013 23:41

It does say and what next in the title

And tbh I don't think there's anything left to say about the AnyFucker debacle.

ChippingInNeedsANYFUCKER · 24/10/2013 23:41

Rosa - I really am sorry :( Flowers Crazy Loon is probably a good description right now. AnyFuckerGate, RL 'stuff', stupidly early Half Term for us and sleep deprivation are all taking their toll. Sorry you caught the flak x

reelingintheyears · 24/10/2013 23:40

Me too Scary.

Scarymuff · 24/10/2013 23:39

I agree reeling and have reported this thread, but not heard anything back yet.

ClayDavis · 24/10/2013 23:38

X posts, Murder's already found it. Ignore me.

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