Is it time to start paying for MN membership?

Noooooo... Not at all.

[gulp]

Are you worried it would say "SoupDragon 15thousandeleventybillion posts"?

A post count? Hell no!

If not 'Member since 2012' what about a 'posts' count? or would people start banging on about 'Royalty' again?

I don't think it is the right way to go at all. Whilst RTB was unnecessarily vicious and rude, it is true that charging excludes people who need support. If you set the fee at the level necessary to deter trolls, you make it impossible for some people to access the support.

IMO, you can't deter trolls, you just need to deal with them properly which means us reporting them.

OP i agree that it's not a stupid idea either.
Jokingly, what was that quote about me defending your right to be wrong? :)
There does need to be a solution so good one for thinking of a potential one.

strumpet it's what they have in my son's class, bad behaviour means they move down the zone board, get to red three times and they go to the head teacher for a little chat. Probably not a naice little chat.

And it wasn't a 'stupid' idea, it's not one I agree with but that DOES NOT make it stupid.

OP, good on you for suggesting a solution. I don't agree with your suggestion.

However, you're absolutely right - it's entirely possible to debate the subject without resorting to spite. Please don't feel down because of some people's inability to do this. Unfortunately it's a bit of a failing in these forums that some people forget basic good manners.

OP, it's good to discuss ideas, I'm glad you posted

octopusinastringbag I iz a bit fick, what's the zone board?

STD that reply you received was very fucking harsh and you didn't deserve it. GOD FORBID anyone makes a suggestion these days Dont let it bother you

Don't feel bad STD. I totally didn't understand the level of vituperativeness in RTB's posts (especially when she also stressed the need for calm discussion, respect for other forum users, and acknowledgement of their intelligence). It seemed that she could have made all the same points without any harshness at all.

Strumpet, go down the zone board right now

Aw, SDTG, don't let it get to you.

I totally understood where you were coming from x.

This is stupid idea. Really the answer is to ignore and report . I find the best way to wind up a goader is to totally ignore them. They will maybe keep writing goady messages but it just makes them look desperate and stupid imo. I dont think its particularly hard to ignore a few words on screen from a random stranger. Perhaps this would be when a hide poster function, for threads or whole site, would be helpful for those who feel they are unable to ignore.

A previous poster makes a good point. Those on low incomes and financially abusive relationships wouldnt be able to pay.

Good post I think.
I am beginning to wonder what job you do, or what hobbies you have!

I quite agree with you about ignoring. Sadly though, there are always going to be people who respond on a site this size. And particularly as it can be hours before headquarters arrive. Though that should improve wiht the overnight moderators.

Hadnt thought about the pride bit. That is probably undoubtedly true.

I am always surprised quite how internet savvy trolls are.

I didnt understand the paragraph after the pride paragraph.

I have seem world class trolling, thats very very true. Some which has caused an enormous amount of distress to individuals, including personal threats, tracking down people in RL, contacting employers or relatives and have ultimately involved the police becoming involved.

There are two types of particularly problematic individual.

I long ago came to the conclusion, that you can't stop some one who becomes somewhat obsessed with a 'cause' on the internet. The more you try and 'silence them', the more they come back at you and feel like they are vindicated in what they believe because you are trying to 'silence them'. The more they start to believe that THEY are the victim and their actions are completely justifable. They don't want to have the debate, because their minds are totally made up in the first place.

Nor can you stop the muppet who doesn't comprehend that their actions on the internet have negative impact on humans. They just see the internet as a dehumanised zone where there are no consequences and as long as its funny and they are getting a reaction its fair game. They have little or no comprehension of empathy and for situations outside their narrow world of experience. Its all a playground and a joke to them. Hence why trolls, tend to be kids or have some sort of a lack of understanding of responsibility for their own actions.

The only way to deal with situations with either, is to take a step back.

Present your argument. Back it up with logic and examples and THEN LEAVE IT. Don't invest the emotion with either. Accept that you will never change some people's minds and that actually its not your job to change their mind. You have to let them change their own mind and have the space and freedom to do this.

People's pride tends to be the biggest thing that prevents them from changing their mind. They would rather argue that Black was White than admit that they might be in the wrong and you told them so. They would rather think of you as some sort of joke rather than accept that they could be really hurting someone.

Instead my best suggestion would be for MN regulars to come up with some sort of action plan to deal with stuff like this. There is strength in numbers and strength in supporting over individuals you know to be regulars or can easily identify as vulnerable namechangers.

You look at what you CAN control. Thats how YOU react. As individuals and as a group.

I appreciate just how difficult it can be at times, - EVERYONE gets over involved somedays -, but the real strength of the internet and indeed this forum, is precisely the thing that makes it vulnerable to attack from difficult individuals.

Its freedom and its anonymity.

Most people, myself included are still at the start of learning how trolls operate.
You sound like you have a lot more knowledge than most posters about the subject. So just impart it, in the intellectual calm way

If you think I'm being rude, fine.

But I am staggered by the shortsightedness on display here. And actually, being deliberately goady on this thread, might actually illustrate the entire point.

I might suggest that this shortsightedness part of the problem too. Trying to close down controversial debates and opinions. You can't. All it does is heighten the emotional responses, rather than the rational ones. The very point of trolling...

Yes. Sometimes there are sick individuals out to deliberately cause offense, but you need to learn how to identify and deal with in a way that doesn't actually make the situation worse.

There are regulars here who can and should help others when this occurs, by pointing this out and by dealing with the 'people in the right' by calming them, reassuring them and helping them - to try and reduce their emotional kneejerk reactions. You don't tackle the intruder - you look after the victim. You direct your attention to them not the person seeking the attention.

In short: The regs look after anyone who is getting distressed rather than using their energy to start a fight with the troublemaker.

If you really must engage with the troll, you do so in an intellectual way, a calm way and a way that neutralises their attacks. You blind with examples and you blind with rational responses in the face of crap. You make them look even more stupid than they are. You do not get emotionally involved. If you can't do that, you stop talking to them immediately, and focus on talking to those people who aren't doing it.

Learn what the point of trolling is and the methods they use to wind people up, and you can start to deal with it in a productive way.

Basically, I take the attitude that the OP hasn't got much of a clue or understanding of trolling and thats as much of a problem as the actual trolling itself.

Instead she thinks she thinks the problem 'must be eliminated' by banning it somehow.

Trouble is, you can sit on the beach and scream for the tide to stop, but it never will. You could just get a wetsuit and ride the waves on a surf board and have fun with your other surfer mates though...

I wouldn't pay. I'd just go cold turkey or nick the phone of someone who as paid and is reading on the bus.

Phone theft would go up