When all this has calmed down, can we have a proper chat about what MNHQ, actually want please?

Having modded on a competitor similar forum, I can tell you it's an absolutely hideous task. Most people lasted less than a year before chucking it in.

Modding support groups is fine. Modding "discussion" groups is sheer, sheer hell. You get new threads started saying "omg why did I get deleted, it's sooooo unfair". Either you're anonymous, in which case you can't reply to that criticism, or you label your edits, in which case you personally take the flak and abuse.

By comparison, sitting here as a vaguely active member, occasionally reporting the odd advert/spam or racist/disablist post or PA for somebody else to make a judgement call on is really very liberating.

There was a brilliant example of what I would consider very clear goading elsewhere earlier, that has since gone. The person disagreed, fine. But then they proceeded to poke and poke one particular poster, clearly trying to get a reaction rather than just put across an alternate view. Luckily, probably thanks to the last few days, that poster said "i am not going to rise to it" and then ignored any more posts, but that could easily have not happened, had it not been at the front of everyones minds because of AFs suspension.

I agree with ubik's views largely on this issue. I also think it's unrealistic to ask MNHQ to moderate millions of posts and posters.

The guidelines are fairly clear, and reporting is simple.

I've not been on MN long but have been on the Internet a while, and the old saying "don't feed the trolls" is as true here as on any other chat group.

Sorry didn't mean to offend you

I'm going to name change back, now, because I never intended to be mistaken for Hulababy, whom I admire, but who is not me.

Do you really want mumsnet to turn into a series of threads where everyone runs to teacher, strops about deletions, bullies moderators, screams until they get what they want, behaves like they are trying to save the world and then when Justine turns up to explain various decisions, stomps and wails some more??

I think it's been like this for a while now actually and want it to stop actually hence my op.

No. But goading and trolling are not contributions and can be controlled through prompt deletion.

Wait until someone decides to pick on something you really care about ubik, and follows you round spouting shite again and again.

It can be very hurtful - Honey's example is a good one. And if it's a different name every time, the people targeted recognise the post and the poster and know it's the same person under a different name.

I think you have to accept that this is the internet and peoples contributions to threads cannot always be controlled. You have to accept that.

You have to accept that this forum is no substitute for a real life support group - it just isn't.

Thanks for that Hulababy.

Next time someone's upset in SN because someone's saying they should have aborted their baby or similar I shall endeavour to explain to the hurt party the talk guide lines in small words.

Again when I reference goading in the op as occurs in FWR, bereavement and SN, I am not referring to something subjective or difficult to interpret.

I got deleted last week for saying "ffs, this is ridiculous" on a thread.

Someone reported me.

The thread was ridiculous, by the way.

I don't run to teacher.

But lots of people do, for seemingly spurious reasons, and when they do the post is deleted. Even if it's something pretty innocuous.

It's just a question of adhering to the Talk Guidelines.

If you don't understand the Talk Guidelines, then get someone to explain them to you.

Nope, I'd like us all to be treated like adults and allowed to talk to each other.

Unfortunately that is getting harder and harder atm.

Do you really want mumsnet to turn into a series of threads where everyone runs to teacher, strops about deletions, bullies moderators, screams until they get what they want, behaves like they are trying to save the world and then when Justine turns up to explain various decisions, stomps and wails some more??

It's actually really embarrassing behaviour.

I find all this really fucking irritating.

Sorry, I don't mean delete equal numbers on both sides - I just mean if someone reports what they think is an attack, and it's deleted, maybe the mnhq-er in charge should have a read of the thread and delete all personal attacks.

I also think that sometimes posts are deleted that shouldn't be - saying someone sounds pompous, or ignorant (when they are saying things that are factually wrong) or selfish, for example, should be allowed. Otherwise it is very hard to get a point across.

Yes you are right. I usually manage to control myself

I think the bullying threads got to me last week, and that's sort of blinding me a bit. There was some horrible personal stuff that didn't get deleted (until the whole thread went in one case), so it did appear that it depended on what was reported, not what was said.

I think if a whole thread is a bunfight, then maybe whichever hq-er comes across it should maybe look at trying to equalise deletions on both sides, rather than just deleting the individual reported post, iyswim. Because I wouldn't report someone calling someone else pompous, or passive-aggressive, or even annoying as a personal attack. But some people seem to take everything as a personal attack.

It can be very difficult to express disagreement on some threads - and we should all be allowed to disagree - without being reported.

And one person's 'goady' is another person's objective opinion.

If everyone throws their toy out of the pram whenever someone airs and unpopular opinion on a thread then mumsnet would be a very dull place.

We are all grown-ups here. No one 'makes' a poster behave badly to another poster, we are all responsible for our actions and hve to take the consequences - and that may mean some time spent in the sin bin.

And we should all be treated the same, there should not be any posters who have special licence to break guidelines.

I don't think anyone gets the fuss that occurred.

But occur it did.

I don't get the fuss over 1 poster in millions on MN, who disobeyed the rules, and got a weeks suspension.

I think moderation is as simple as following the guidelines and reporting, and not feeding trolls, or those you think are trolls.

It's very difficult to decide what is "goady" when passions run high, it is however much clearer whether an attack is personal or not.

I definitely agree with that Custy. And idea how to convince the late night weirdos though?

Well put, HellMouth.

tomatoes.

indeed