Pregnant women should take 'smoking test': what do you think?

I flicked from channel 5 to 3 today whilst eating breakfast and had to laugh that while Wright was discussing this very topic Kyle was berating a posse of pondlife who all had children everywhere and clearly needed a good scrub.

I think there are much, much bigger issues surrounding children's long term welfare than does Mum have a ciggie during pregnancy to be honest but then I'm probably just old and delusional which is why I turned it off tutting

I don't see a problem with a woman being offered this test, as it does pick up on carbon monoxide leaks in the house as well.

But forcing it?

I struggled to quit smoking entirely while pg, I had the odd one. I knew it was terrible, I'd cut down from being a regular smoking when my unexpected pg happened, but I had a very difficult pg for many reasons and I occasionally struggled and had a cigarette. It is nothing to be proud of and I wish I hadn't done it, but I did.

If I had had this test done at the booking in appt it would have come back as positive, as I found out quite late I was pg and, as it was unexpected, it took a few weeks to cut down and quit. If I had had this test done later it could potentially have come back as positive.

But none of that would have actually achieved anything. I was scared enough and hated myself enough for struggling to completely quit, knowing that I might get 'caught' (yes, as if I was a teenager nicking sweets from a shop) would have made me even more stressed and would have probably damaged my relationship with my mw. As it was I generally had supportive mw's who didn't judge and who helped through each relapse.

Women who are struggling to quit smoking during pg need support, just like anyone struggling to quit any addictive substance. For many women pg is a hormal, emotional, even scary time and feeling bullied by HCP's is not going to help one iota. They need someone who will ask what can be done to help; they don't need judging. I do understand why people judge women who don't manage to quit while pg, but if you honestly think that attitude will actually help anyone, that is extremely blinkered.

There are many other tests, as mentioned above, for problems which are completely unseen during pg. Spend the money on that. Support women in pg, stop telling them what to do.

Boiling mad - just listened to Radio 2 Jeremy Vine (yes, not a good idea if you don't ever want to get wound up by 'discussion') and in response to an interviewed MW saying about getting positive test, JV said something about 'having to expose the lie' of a positive result for someone who has said they don't smoke. Now I don't smoke (tried it once about 20 years ago), neither does my partner, and BOTH my tests (at Glasgow, 2007 and 2010) were positive. I don't have a faulty boiler (we only had central heating installed after DS was born) BUT I did cycle to work, and lived above a heavy smoker in a Glasgow tenement, and we lived in the central part of the city. If someone had taken this 'expose the lie' attitude with me I would have been fuming (yes, I'm sure there's some irony about being fuming and NOT being a smoker). Luckily the MW did believe me. I would be raging otherwise, and I do have concerns about the test.

FranFrankland, I absolutely agree that health professions should do everything they can to prevent harm from tobacco use, but not at the expense of the underlying principles of patient care (previously quoted by better informed Mumsnetters than me).

The previous system of asking a woman if she smokes and making her aware of smoking cessation services (which, even as a non-smoker I was made aware of during pregnancy) was in my opinion sufficient.

Otherwise, what is the next step? A midwife assesses that a woman is lying but the woman won't stop smoking, so she is hospitalised for her pregnancy to stop her?

Ultimately, our system is based upon individual patient responsibility. If a woman wants to risk her child by smoking in pregnancy, all we as a society can do is inform her of the risks and attempt to provide support for her to stop. If she refuses this, there is nothing we can do - this is a basic human right.

Checks to see if women are lying (and disguising the reason behind the tests) is not part of a healthy or balanced approach to healthcare.

Ok I see the boiler point has been covered. I still don't see the problem.

Haven't read entire thread, discussion may have moved on.

I was asked to do a carbon monoxide detector test at my booking in appointment in December 2010 so this has been in use for some time in some areas (Bristol). I didn't really mind, also the midwife said one non smoker had a carbon monoxide + result - it was due to low level carbon monoxide poisoning due to a faulty boiler in her house.

I understand the idea that health care professionals should accept people's word - but on that analysis they should just ask our weight and height rather than measuring.

I did have a carbon monoxide monitor but I didn't realise until afterwards if your house is open plan - which my house is i.e. the kitchen hall staircase and lounge are all open the levels have to get dangerously high before the monitor will alarm (which is not documented in the instructions - we didn't get offered this little gem of information until after we had all been admitted to hospital) carbon monoxide initially rises to the ceiling then sinks to the floor and begins to rise again - ours was set at the right height but because the carbon monoxide basically had to fill pretty much the entire house before it got to a level where it could be picked up on by the monitor we were all super exposed to it...

FranFrankland, the other tests that you cite are screening tests which are not within the mother's power to confirm - I have no way of knowing what my urinary protein levels are and therefore I consent to the test to alert me to any increased risk to me and my unborn child.

Nobody is disputing the huge risk of smoking to unborn babies. The objection to the smoking breath test is that the risk can easily be assessed with simple questioning of the mother. The test itself is nothing more than a lie detector of her responses.

What is so wrong with midwives trying to care and protect the health and wellbeing of the unborn child? To take the tack that you would not attend an appointment is dangerous for you and your unborn child. Smoking is very addictive and extremely harmful, why would we not expect the health profession to do everything they can to prevent the harm from tobacco use.

Did you not have a Carbon monoxide monitor and alarm in your home youaintallthat? I ask because if I had a friend die of CO poisoning I would buy one, test it and change the batteries religiously. Or did it fail and that is how your family ended up in hospital?

Can I urge anyone who still believes this test is checking your gas appliances to read Mumsyblouse's excellent post at Mon 13-May-13 10:02:31. This test does NOT check your gas appliances.

The NHS should offer a routine scan in the 3rd trimester, that is more important for the health of a foetus.

Fran, I totally agree with you.

Its about balance of risks and the fact that a woman has rights and whilst we can encourage women to be responsible we cant force them and rightly so!

The advice on alcohol was a drink ie one/two units a week was ok when i had ds1 that has now changed and they do say that they recomend no alcohol now. But the advice and evidence is variable. Some studies say a drink every so often is ok, others say no. Everyone advises on moderation, some abstinence.

Re smokng i was a smoker when i got preg as a teen with ds1, i gave up immediatelt but nine yrs later after having ds4 i had post natal psychosis and started smoking again. I recovered from the psychosis and pnd and got preg again but was still smoking occasionally ie two a day or none for a week etc i was honest with my midwife, consultant and my cpn who agreed that the priority was to moniter my mental health and ensure i stayed well and therefore they said given the amount i was smoking to not stress myself out trying to give up.

They said smoking less than five a day the affect was minimal and that they are concerned with heavier smokers.

I was offered this test and I don't really see the problem with it. If it encourages at least one expectant mum to stop smoking then it's a good idea in my book. Just refuse it if you don't want to take it - no need to cause such a fuss.

You joke about cooking classes ankle biter, we had one enforced on us at our new mums group(I think it as a sure start thing). Only it wasn't for weaning, it was for adults. Complete with little bags of fat, sugar and salt to show us how "bad" things were for us . All presented by a woman who clearly didn't follow her own advice!

It is outrageous that women would refuse a test for carbon monoxide levels that can indicate if your baby is at harm. Bet most of these women who say they would refuse do not refuse other tests eg, protein in urine, high blood pressure etc. It costs the NHS over £220,000,000 per year to treat babies who have been harmed due to women smoking during pregnancy. The tobacco industry has a lot to answer for, listening to the levels of addiction from women who are prepared to sacrifice the health of their unborn child in order to satisfy an addiction which lines the pockets of multi millionaires! The NHS has to do everything possible to ensure a safe and healthy baby is the end product, collusion is not acceptable from midwives!

I'm not being rude, I'm not name calling

Like I said , I've been there and took control, there are no victims here,

You have your opinion I have mine, the soft approach is too enabling imo.

I had this done as part of my booking appointment at my local hospital - I've never smoked in my life....I didn't mind though - because it picks up on your carbon monoxide levels so if you have a faulty gas meter or carbon monoxide leak in your house which is potentially fatal it will also be picked up on as part of this test. I know the carbon monoxide thing sounds far fetched but as one of my friends died from this and me my husband and baby recently got admitted to hospital with carbon monoxide poisoning from a faulty boiler I was more tham happy to have my levels checked. I do agree with the comments above though the nhs do seem to think you have handed your body over to the state as soon as you find out your pregnant.

Are we testing the Fathers to see if they're smoking too? If not, why not?
After all they are also responsible for the environment that the Mother is living in.

What an absolute waste of already overstretched NHS resources.

We'll be having the midwives doing spot visits to check that there's no blue cheese or shellfish in the fridge and that pregnant women are all in bed by half past nine with a hot milk next

Where does it end? Intelligence tests and 'voluntary' education classes for those designated numpties? Cooking exams once junior is due to wean?

I was never told to "stop smoking now" when I got pregnant.

It's wrong that, in your opinion, because a mother smokes, her children have no chance. No chance of what exactly? It's a bit of a sweeping statement.

There are mums on here who have posted abut the stresses they were under during pregnancy and for you to come here and be so god damn rude is uncalled for.

Sometimes all people need is a kick up the backside, but not everyone. Sometimes they need the softly softly approach.

Anyway, this isn't what this thread is about, it's about a test to prove whether or not you are lying to your midwife about smoking. In my opinion, the test is wrong. It has feck all to do with faulty boilers or any other guff they try and say its for, it's to "catch out" smokers.

What bread said

I didn't choose Glaikit, I was a teen but I took some responsibility ,

Why is it down right wrong, urgh why do people bend over backwards to support something that is poisonous to an unborn child.

I will no doubt get flamed, that's fine my view is concrete though.

Chunderella, when I got pregnant it was 'you are pregnant, stop drinking, smoking now!'
and people went cold turkey and stayed that way,
now its 'well I have the odd one here or there'.