Pregnant women should take 'smoking test': what do you think?

Whoa. Are you actually judging me on my AGE?! And you're telling me to be non-judgemental!! I have no words to describe my disgust.

Upthestick - that's interesting.

I didn't say anything should be enforced. I'm simply saying that expectant mothers shouldn't smoke and that I feel they are irresponsible for risking their child's health. What's best for most expectant mothers who smoke is to stop. And as s student nurse I have chosen not to work in any capacity with smoking expectant mothers or to become a midwife (which I always wanted to do) because I'm very much pro-life and I would not be able to be non-judgemental in that capacity. You have no right to say that my opinions will affect my ability to practice as a nurse, because I don't let them.

It is unfair to hold people to such high standards. I completely agree that it is unprofessional.

You don't understand research. Come on if you are 18 you are only just nearly finishing 1st year.

Research doesn't get "found to be wrong" very often.

Research using different methods often conflicts.

No Futterby. I'm saying that statistics and research can be manipulated. And that correlation can be flawed.

Futterby, you might feel like that, but how you enforce that has very real implications for womens rights. If your opinion means that things need to be enforced on women in any way thats very dangerous and leave use all open to abuse.

I get concerned when student HCP (or indeed practising one) get judgemental on subjects like this with such passion - it means they have lost they ability to focus on whats best for that individual patient or the pressures or challenges they may face in their life because they lack the ability to properly empathise on any level. You don't have to agree with what someone does or to approve of their actions to understand them. If you are not capable of doing this, you are not capable of acting in the patients best interest - you will only ever act based on your beliefs.

And its not about your beliefs. Ever.

Interestingly, the evidence shows that behaviours under conditions of strong habits (such as smoking) are often performed automatically (i.e. not subject to a conscious decision). Also, that vigilant monitoring is an effective strategy against such habits: just giving people information just doesn't work.

Therefore I think it's a good thing. Such testing avoids self-delusion, and attempts to give women access to alternative strategies to give up at a point in their lives that an intervention has a good chance of working.

I believe it's been in place around the country for some time: presumably NICE have empirical evidence that it's an effective intervention.

Let's hope it's implemented in a sensitive way....

Well Offred, that is what I believe. And nothing anyone can say will change my mind.

So Frebbie, are you saying that the research that has been done to show that smoking during pregnancy harms the baby is all one big conspiracy?

That's why most things use word like "linked to".

Again no-one is arguing that smoking is a great thing in pregnancy or even that it doesn't increase risks. You are behaving as though pregnant smokers are irresponsible mothers and that is a fact.

Three sorts of lies.

Lies.

Damn lies.

And statistics.

So show me the research you're quoting that hasn't actually been found to be wrong.

I didn't know I was pregnant. I have said that. I haven't smoked one cigarette, had one sip of alcohol or one whiff of weed since I found out. Tell me how I've done wrong there.

There are no such thing a cold hard facts I'm afraid. Only research, which is inevitably flawed.

I get that you are probably feeling a lot of pressure to be very responsible so young and I think you are brilliant for giving up smoking and taking your pregnancy so seriously but please just be a little kinder to other people.

I want the cold, hard facts Offred. Which you can't supply, because your statistics are made up.

Here's some evidence for you. www.cancer.org/cancer/cancercauses/tobaccocancer/womenandsmoking/women-and-smoking-health-of-others

You cannot avoid any risk to the baby when you are pregnant. Does it help for us to tell you what a silly idea it was to be drinking and smoking and doing drugs when you were risking pregnancy or is it actually just mean and nasty and totally pointless?

You know what happens in jurisdictions where the life growing inside her is given precedence over the mother don't you Futterby?

What evidence do you want beyond the fact that lots if women smoke at least a little bit and most babies are born fine. Have you got evidence that babies are put at such great harm anytime a mother smokes because you know all that stuff about blood supply down the cord? That gets cut off sometimes for a load of different reasons and babies are resilient. That doesn't mean it is a GOOD thing but it also is not an excuse for doing this awful judgemental test.

RedToothBrush, if a woman smokes, that is her decision. Speaking as an ex smoker. But when she is pregnant, I feel that she should take more responsibility for her actions because they are not just harming her but the life growing inside her who doesn't have a choice in the matter.

You have no evidence to support your rubbish statement. So I do not believe it.

Are you telling me you've never, ever been judgemental on a subject that you feel strongly about?

Hate to point this out, but strangely we are all human. We are flawed, and even the best of us with the best intentions 'Do Bad Things For Selfish Reasons That We Simply Can Not Explain, Justify Or Excuse But We Still Do Them'.

And frankly, if you are doing something like that, there us generally a route cause or problem that lies deep down which deserves people to try and understand and help with, rather than taking the big stick to beat with approach.

Why do people take up smoking? Why do they carry on, even though they know its bad for them? Forget the baby - its a self destructive and self harming act whether or not you are pregnant.

Start thinking about it in those terms rather than just because a woman is pregnant. Yes its more destructive if a woman is pregnant, but ask the right questions rather than trying to punish for it.

Yes, no-one is saying smoking has no risks. I am saying that it increases the risks but the majority of babies born to mothers who have smoked in pregnancy are fine because most babies are fine. I think as you progress through uni you should (hopefully) learn to be a little more understanding and a little less judgemental.

Offred, I did say that.