Pregnant women should take 'smoking test': what do you think?

Futterby

The privilege of bringing a child into the world ???

That makes it sound like the baby is doing us a favour. Quite the opposite actually. The woman does the fetus a huge favour by bringing it into the world. That too after such a lot of discomfort, pain and after all the health risks that come with pregnancy and childbirth.

Bringing a child into the world is not a privilege. It's a fucking hard job that spreads over 40 weeks and those 1-3 days it then takes to bring the wee one out.

"Perhaps its actually the attitude and manner of the profession that actually the real problem here?"

RedToothBrush, see my post at 22.27.

You see, from that point of view, if you were testing me because of insurance premiums i'd be more inclined to actually take a test - not because of my health or because it was about damaging trust - but because it benefited my pocket and because it gives a very clear motive for people to lie.

But as things stand, I struggle to understand the motive behind lying - unless people are afraid of the judgment of those treating them. And if thats the case, shouldn't we be closely examining that relationship and what doctors and nurses are doing and trying to remove that rather tha making the patient the 'bad guy'. Perhaps its actually the attitude and manner of the profession that actually the real problem here?

With health related insurance premiums being on average something like three to four times more expensive for smokers I can totally see this moving into general practice.

RedToothBrush, I think you're spot on.

tribpot, it wouldn't surprise me if it was brought it in general practise. Not because it actually benefits anyone, but because someone makes money from making these tests and it sounds good on paper as an idea to decision makers.

I think pregnant women are the easiest target to get a foot in the door and start making it commonplace in the market.

Spot the cynic.

Meh, I think she's getting a hard time fairly deservedly based on what she actually said but I think we shouldn't forget her circs. Being pg at 18 means she'll likely feel very much on the defensive, and may be beig made to feel so in ordinary life by other judgemental peopl. I don't think she should have to defend her existence at all. It makes me a bit sad and I remember having the same feeling being pg at 20 of wanting to pre-empt other's judgement of me. Think we should leave it now and move on.

Has that patronising young woman with a lot to learn in life gone yet?

Good. I was getting stressed in the end, never mind her and her baby!

Although like Frebbie I was wondering how she managed to filter out the smokers from the non-smokers in clinic and refuse to deal with the former.

I don't think anyone is saying pregnant women should smoke. In fact I loathe smoking to the point where I think it should be banned completely.

But that does not change the fact that this test is conducted to prove to pregnant women that they are lying. Why not impose it in general practice as well, so we can catch out more of the population who lie to their GP about smoking, thus depriving him or her of valuable income derived from asking you to stop smoking? Because generally speaking good clinical relationships are not fostered when one party is trying to call the other a liar. Or trying to diagnose boiler problems at arm's length (apparently).

Whoa, you smoked weed! Well that's my judgey pants hoiked right up. Pg or not that's illegal, you have now lost the argument based on your inability to make healthy choices.

(See how ridiculous that sounds???)

Please, please, don't refer to patients as 'Mum', 'Dad', 'love', 'sausage' or anything but their names, either. This practice is utterly unprofessional and lazy.

Pro-life. Why am I not surprised?

Research can often be rather grey not black and white. And it can be hugely manipulated for a lot of reasons. Like life generally.

I'm sure that as a student nurse, Bad Pharma should definitely be on your reading list for a good starting point.

Thing is, lots of stuff is 'bad' - but its still can be the less evil than the 'good' alternative. And is very much dependant on what you are measuring too.

As I said upthread, the idea of this test may well look good on paper, but its only good if they also measure how this might affect the relationship of trust between midwives and patients.

It is entirely possible that if this seriously damages that relationship and stops women seeking prompt medical advice when they need it - both during their pregnancy but also later in life (for them AND their child/ren), that it could actually cost more lives in the long run. I don't know this. You don't know this. Chances are no one actually knows this.

If something is not measured, the truth is still the same. But we can be blinded by 'facts' which might well be true, but only tell part of the story - which distort what we think and are lulled into false sense of security about 'the right' course of action.

I very much believe that if you practise medicine and are so inflexible and believed in fixed 'rights' and 'wrongs' you are in the wrong job. There generally isn't ever a correct way of doing things that applies for every patient since every patients is simply different - and all these Care Pathways drive me nuts because they refuse this grey area from medicine and instead force everyone into nice neat little boxes that need to be ticked. It removes the human element of actually listening to a patient.

People aren't tick boxes and forcing them into them actively causes distress in a growing number of cases.

Stress is not linked to harm in pregnancy unless it is extreme stress. In my second pregnancy which had resulted from being raped I was being constantly harrassed and intimidated by my ex and then take through family court and dd was not harmed, that is considerably more stressful than arguing on the Internet.

No-one has said smoking doesn't harm the baby. I have said a number of women smoke in pregnancy in varying amounts and logically most of their babies are fine so a blanket judgement of irresponsibility is overkill and also just plain mean.

Honestly I think the best thing you could do in this pregnancy is relax and stop trying desperately to prove you are perfect and responsible, you will make yourself anxious and paranoid. You still get to be a person when you are pregnant.

I asked a question and said I could be wrong. How is that drivel?

I wasn't going to comment but I just can't leave that.

Since you obviously don't understand student nursing during pregnancy, no I do not have to do shift work. Simply because I'm pregnant and my university has a duty of care over myself and my baby.

Now I'm hiding the thread and will not respond to any more of your drivel comments.

And, as a student nurse, I'd assume (I could be wrong) that you have to do shift work. A quick google has shown me loads of research stating that can have adverse effects on pregnancy outcomes.

I'd suggest you look at that as well.

Can I suggest you go and talk to your lecturers about how research works? And the difference between "linked" and "proven".

I won't continue to argue with people over the internet because I'm getting stressed which could harm my baby and I seem to be more responsible than a lot of women and will not take that risk. I believe that mothers who smoke, for the most part, are irresponsible and should stop, and anyone saying that it "doesn't harm the baby" is talking rubbish. That's all I have left to say on the matter.

Research doesn't get proven to be false. You have not understood the significance of the word "linked". Research is often conflicting, the one you personally like better is not necessarily more or less valid.

*your.

Frebbie, I have no idea what you're talking about.

Actually, I your understanding of research is flawed. I have shown research proven to be valid, and you have shown research proven to be false.

Oh right, so you get to pick and choose but the pregnant women in the clinics don't? How does that work then?

Er no, I'm judging you on your lack of understanding about research because of your stage of education. In first year I was excited and got carried away thinking a little knowledge was a lot too. Everyone does.

Not by choice, Frebbie. As a placement. Which was mandatory.

"I'm a student nurse within the NHS and I've been involved with the treatment of pregnant mothers who smoke"

Which is it Futterby?