Pregnant women should take 'smoking test': what do you think?

If MWs really are fudging the reasons for the test with guff about gas appliances that is worrying for three reasons:

1. They are not getting informed consent
2. They are not being honest and therefore undermine the trust in the relationship
3. Some people will think their gas appliances are safe because they've been tested (I wouldn't have believed it but I read it here) thus putting themselves and their family at risk because they are less likely to see the need for a home co monitor and alarm. Because what is a safe gas appliance on one day does not necessarily remain a safe gas appliance in the future.

Obviously if MWs feel they have to fudge reasons that is indicative that the official reason is poorly evidenced or downright spurious.

You can imagine the training 'women are under reporting smoking, so we are going to screen them' 'what if they don't want to be screened for smoking, if they are adamant they don't smoke.' 'tell them the test will also identify other sources of CO2, leaking boiler, pollution'

They hold us in such contempt.

• That should read, 'How intelligent do you have to be in order to be told that your gas fire' etc etc.

How intelligent do you have to be glad to be told that your gas fire doesn't leak as a result of a midwife testing you and you alone, when it's a well known fact that a leak will affect your children (and pets and the elderly) first if it does?

A CO2 monitor in the home gets my vote too.

It makes no difference if they just best you at booking in and that's it... sure this is actually about mother/baby welfare rather then research/stats?

No my most recent pg only

iclaudius, this test you had, did you already have a child/ren when it was carried out or was it done during your first pregnancy?

You might not have done but the point is other women have. The other point is that the outcome does not make any difference to the action. Whether they test or not makes no difference.

The funny thing is, I am a smoker but always give up when pregnant (unfortunately I relapse in between) I was asked to take the test (and told they were testing all mums to be) after already telling her I was a smoker and asked if I could see the "smoking midwife" (saw her with my previous pregnancy and felt her support had really helped in staying smoke free) and was told oh we don't do that if you want to quit you'll need to see a doctor or go to Boots, but just think of the baby and don't do it! Now, whilst I except that is a fair point, a. Why get women to do the test but offer no back up support, and b. If it was that easy to 'think of the baby and not do it', surely there wouldn't be a problem! I managed it but its not easy and I was lucky to have other support around me. Smokers arn't warped evil parents that don't love their children enough, smoking is aaddictive! I doubt that are many smoking mums that aren't desperate to quit when pregnant, if they lie about it its probably because they're ashamed and don't want the usual assumptions to be made about it. But trying to catch them out with an initial test, what help will that do?! Proper support is whats needed.

k8 i've never ever felt like the midwife implied i was stupid and i've seen a lot of different midwives

I had a carbon monoxide test at my booking in appointment in October - I wasn't told it was anything to do with whether I smoked.

Feel a bit insulted now, was my midwife just checking I was telling the truth about not smoking, or was she really checking for carbon monoxide in general (e.g. faulty boiler, passive smoking)?

iclaudius it is ironic that you have taken great offence to my implying you may be stupid (note I said "if you", not "you are") yet when a midwife or other health care professional suggests a woman may be stupid, ignorant or a liar that is fine.

Perhaps think about how you felt when you reacted to my post. That is how women are being made to feel. Only it's worse because they are hormonal and in unfamiliar surroundings dealing with unfamiliar rules. Not nice is it?

i did have it THIS year redtoothbrush

What a waste of money and time!

Lucky you then iclaudius.

Not everything is getting that though, and its pretty widespread.

Especially at a time where HCPs have to meet targets on all manner of things and are under pressure to get their required numbers, in order to get funding.

There's a great book out there called "The Patient Paradox" by Margaret McCartney, a practising GP, which discusses at some length this problem and the ethics behind it. Highly recommend.

"Let me be clear here. There IS emerging evidence out there that bullying patients on smoking, obesity during routine check ups for other things, instead of having the desired effect can have a negative effect on patient relationships, and can make patients less likely to seek medical attention for other things, which is highly concerning. "

Hell yes! It was the bullying, patronising and ignoring of patient consent from a midwife which caused me to say screw this, I'm having nothing to do with these people. Once was enough, you don't get a second chance to be an ass to me.

chipmonkey it's new - i didn't have it last year

Can you explain exactly how it's helpful to spend a considerable amount of the already overstretched, overworked and underfunded NHS's - no, taxpayer's - money on an initiative which will be used to patronise and bully women, treat them like idiots and liars, alienate them and, as our experiences of the "you have to" and "you have to or else" contingent prove, in some cases cause a breach in UK laws regarding medical consent?

And then can you explain quite what you mean by "the greater good" in this instance, please?

iclaudius - those were the questions I asked you. You responded with "ramboscar - why do YOU suggest these tests are being introduced then?".

Now, apart from the fact that it doesn't matter why I suggest the tests are being introduced and that they shouldn't be is far more the case, apart from the fact that in truth I have no fucking idea why such a ridiculous, insulting, money-wasting, patronising, manpower-wasting concept was ever dreamt up, I'd have thought it would have been a little more usual and helpful to respond to the questions with either an answer, a refusal to answer or the reply that you haven't a Scooby, not to respond with another question.

No, this infantilises women.

Freddie upthread you said this was going toward the Irish position? I was never asked to do this test in 5 pregnancies in Ireland and was never asked to partake in any test without my former knowledge or consent? Or is this something new?

K8 'stupid' ? Very nice? I think I'll nip off now you are getting abusive

Please re read the thread when i told you were jumping to wrong conclusions

Yes, spend the money on carbon monixide tests for houses, money well spent.

Good post K8

Fgs when are we ever going to get some privacy and freedom???

i was asked for my consent for the test which was in a 15 minute booking

i was told it was optional

i at no time felt bullied

maybe my experience was different to the majority

i see very little of my mw, as i said and do not feel a great need for a trusting relationship as i know she will not deliver me but again thats just my personal experience.

I apologise. If you are do stupid you need a hand held carbon monoxide test to assure your gas fire isn't leaking carbon monoxide then it is unreasonable of me to expect you to comprehend almost all women are capable of making informed decisions when given the facts.

Can I suggest that rather then relying on a CO test from a midwife you buy a carbon monoxide detector for your home. They cost les than a tenner and will keep testing the atmosphere in your home protecting you and your family. You do of course have to change the batteries every so often but I think even a young woman could manage that

You can justify doing anything without consent, with the phase "they trying to help" within healthcare.

It doesn't make it right.

It has a psychological impact on the patient.

Let me be clear here. There IS emerging evidence out there that bullying patients on smoking, obesity during routine check ups for other things, instead of having the desired effect can have a negative effect on patient relationships, and can make patients less likely to seek medical attention for other things, which is highly concerning.

So 'trying to help' is actually doing exactly the opposite, because the HCP is frankly too arrogant and too lazy to build up a relationship with the patient and to understand and fully recognise their needs and concerns in each particular case. One size fits all approaches like this do not work. They may benefit some, but they have a terrible effect on others.

no K8 you've jumped to a very wrong conclusion there