Primary-school places shortfall: what's happening where you live?

We are in SW London and live in a Borough with quite a marked geographical divide between the haves and have-nots. This has traditionally meant there's always been a pressure on places in the wealthier part of the Borough because historically that's where the best-performing schools have been.

We had problems getting our DS (now 12) into our preferred choice school or even our closest one, in a birth-dip year, even when previously he would have got into both. DW being aware of trends etc..., asked the 'population boom' question of the Council and it was flatly denied. Of course this is the time when there was a big influx of Polish people, some with small children. Surprise, surprise, DS's primary school was the first in the Borough to expand to accommodate the extra demand for places. And now just about all of the schools, with the exception of some of the high-achieving faith schools, have expanded and some have additional bulge classes too.

For DS's school it has meant that it has transformed from a very cosy, small school where everyone knew everyone into an entirely different school. The teachers are fantastic but there isn't the same friendly atmosphere and tribalism in the playground at drop-off/pick up is rife in a way that it never was before! Also, because it's stuck between a rock and a hard place, being neither one of the highly desirable (in social terms) nor one of the undesirable schools, it has a huge catchment area which spans virtually the whole Borough.

The 'outstanding' school in the area which is now the most sought after one in mid-Borough is transforming into a three form entry school and has already had to acquire park land to do so.

There are also schools using annexes a walk away from the main school. Not entirely satisfactory.

There has for years been talk of another school on the affluent side of the Borough but by the time the Council gives it the go-ahead no doubt the birth rate will be dipping.

Mindful of what's happened with primary schools, DW asked about increased secondary school provision (which will need to kick in for the 2014/15 intake) and was told by a Council Official "we have it in hand" but we have not noticed that secondary schools are being 'grown' to accommodate the looming expanded intakes.

The trouble is that by and large it seems that Councils operate reactively rather than pro-actively. I suspect this is as much down to economics as localised, ideological political war-mongering. But it's just not right.

Presumably the 2001 Census must have shown some indication of this population boom?

Actually,LaQueen your post had me nodding.We too have had loads of people from London move up here,who previously sent their children to private schools,and now are delighted to find an Outstanding school on their doorstep.It got to the point that every other week,the DDs would come home and announce a new child had joined their class and they came from London.Then there are a lot of pupils who were pulled out of the local preps and sent to the village primary and the parents in the nearby town who drive their children out here every day.It is madness.

I'm another Lambeth person and was horrified to learn that last year there were 500 children without places as no application was submitted for them. Add that number into the mix already discussed up thread...

BoffinMum - you and I both know that, but it doesn't stop them from trying. One mum I know September just gone was offered a Primary that was 7.1 miles away as the crow flies for her 4yo, and was originally given no help with the transport despite being unable to drive. She was in bits, as the earliest bus to that village (we are in a town and she was offered an outlying village school due to lack of places) doesn't get to the school till 9.05am...

I ended up helping her fight the transport Dept of our LA and they now provide a Taxi - but she isn't allowed to go in the taxi and has to send her 4yo (July birthday) in the taxi. Parents evenings are horrendous for her.

Rural midlands village here. village school 3form entry. it's stuffed to the rafters with most classes at 31/32 pupils.

Couldn't get DD into village school, despite being able to See it from house-stressful appeals gone through before she got in...

Now bastard local council have decided that a developer can build an extra 300 houses on edge of village (protests were ignored) and nothing else will be provided for (school, GP, library etc) Stupid old woman councillor said it would be alright, they could put extra chairs in the classroom! WTAF?

I thought I had it bad when DS1 was due to start secondary school 12 years ago and the borough had a 70 place shortfall. He was offered a place at a failing school about as far away from us as it was possible to be eventually.

We declined the place and got him into the newly-branded 'Islington Arts and Media Academy" (two boroughs over, but an easier journey) which was great until it all the old "problem children" were readmitted, their funding slashed, and their educational ethos squashed. We were lucky to get him into Cranbrook in Kent as a boarder at 13 plus. It was a nightmare.

Now I'm facing the same prospect again with DS2's primary. I have no desire to send him to any of the local schools, they are all over-subscribed, bursting at the seams, and struggling.

The council are adding bulge classes, building on the last few remaining bits of green, and (officially) denying that there's a problem. It's horrid and depressing.

It was obvious when DS2 was born that the midwifery services were over-stretched, which must surely translate to : will need more schools in 4/5 years time. But instead the council has built more and more housing, and more and more large families have moved into the area. Where's the logic in that?

If OH is employed by September we will either homeschool (I'll give up work), or send DS2 to the local private Christian Academy (£240 per month) (Strange curriculum but nice teachers and children) . If OH is still unemployed then we'll have to seriously think about moving into a "shed" in the IL's garden, just to be near some decent primaries with capacity.

tilder, I think you have to find out the furthest admission last year to give you an estimate, then take a bit off that...

We moved in year last summer, due to DH new job, and the LA offered us nothing. No place at all. Hours of phone calls, I found a half empty school about 10 miles away in a different LA that DS could have a place at. But, it was in special measures, hence half empty. It also fed into a junior school in same situation.

We are in the very fortunate position that after some careful calculations and extreme belt tightening, we could go independent. It wasn't in the life plan, but giving our children stability was, so we decided this was a better choice than having to move school again if a place came up on a waiting list. I completely recognise that this is not an option for most people. That aside, it isn't the solution to the bigger problem either.

tidler Not sure about where you are but in most places schools do not handle admissions themselves and it's all down to the LEA so you need to be calling your council's admissions office. They should be able to tell you where you can find admissions criteria and the furthest places offered for the last round of admissions. Obviously they can't tell you how that may change in the future but it will give you a starting point.

This thread does worry me. At the moment we live in a rural area with several good and undersubscribed schools. The concern is lack of children.

We are currently looking to move to an area with lots of church schools but as atheist it is not overly appealing plus they are changing admission requirementa to include church attendance. I have looked at catchment areas for schools but have no idea if the maps reflect reality. When I phone the schools they just tell me to look at the areas online. How do I find out about the actual catchments?.

TalkinPeace, state maintained community schools, south Cambridge fringe. Masses of new houses being built and developers are funding the new schools.

Merry, they are making up their own transport rules there, and are obliged to pay. They'd back down immediately if someone stood their ground and involved the MP.

We are in South Lincolnshire. When my SDC moved here with me, we could not get a reception place anywhere close - there are 2 primaries in the town, plus about 6 nearby village schools. There were Year 4 places available for DSS1. The LEA offered us a local place for DSS1 and a reception place for DSS2 10 miles away. Completely unworkable. Both DSS now go to school 10 miles away by taxi. Not ideal but at least they are together.

We are in an area where there has been a huge program of building new houses and a strong immigrant population. NONE of our services or schools have been expanded to cope. It's now driving locals out of the area, which is a shame.

Reading's shit hit the fan last year - lots of parents received a letter saying "I'm sorry we cannot allocate your child a place yet"- causing a lot of stress that their child would not have a school place come September. In the end they were given places just under 2 miles away - so they have long bus routes and you feel really sorry for them. The radius to get in on distance is very tiny so some were just caught in a black hole where any 4 year olds in a few particular roads didn't get a place - they were 0.25-0.35 miles from 3 schools. It was shocking, a true postcode lottery. The council seem a bit more organised this year but it remains to be seen whether they will send similar letters out this year. Thankfully DS1 is now in a good school and DS2 is assured entry under siblings being the priority to admit. The council reckon the reasons are not just estate building and immigration but also families who traditionally would have moved out to larger houses (they are mostly small 2/3 bed terraces), haven't done so because of the housing market. In West Reading we hope to get a new free school at Secondary because the council are unable to create a new school- they had to ask parents to apply for a free school - the system is ridiculous now.

To the person asking about two-level primaries - my primary has had to expand upwards, first if all the upstairs classroom was used for KS1 classes (bulge class), it has been out if use for 1.5 years currently, but will be needed again next year.

This is because current Y6 is a very small intake - last of the 1FE yr groups. All other years are 2-FE now, except Y4, which is 3-FE.

So when Y6 leave, current Y4 will need the upstairs classroom again.

This school was actually built as a 0.5FE school 22 years ago, to cope with the overspill from the original village and estate schools. Another 2-FE Primary was opened 3.5 years ago, and we need ANOTHER now, plus this one expanding PAST it's possible maximum.

The foundations aren't strong enough to support any further upwards additions. That and the design of the building meant it was only possible to go up in one place, allowing for only one extra classroom.

That's the reason lots of schools don't expand upwards - the cost of shoring up the foundations like our school had to.

The LA wants the HT to take a bulge class every 3/4 years by losing the library as well, but this has so far been resisted!

Oh - and LA's last-ditch solution - some 11yo's and lots of 4yo's travelled 30 miles away to the next town to go to schools with spaces there.

They wouldn't have to pay the transport either, as my LA has a tiny rule embedded in their transport rules that says that they only have to cover the transport if the school offered for a 4yo is over 2 miles away or UNDER 7 miles away, (if its over 7 mikes away, they don't have to fund the transport unless it is for a specific SEN school...), and for an 11yo if the school offered is over 3 miles away and UNDER 9 miles away. (Again, with the codicil of that not applying if it is the only suitable SEN school for the DC.)

What a way to wriggle out of any delays in providing a new school - oh look, we are sending your 4yo 30 miles away to Reception. Transport? Not our problem - you are over 7 miles away.

You can appeal, but as all the schools locally haven't even got room for demountables, it's not as if they can even be FORCED to take more than 1/2 more pupils even on a successful appeal. What about the other 120/150 4yo's?!

It will be September 2015 in my area that a perfect shitstorm of lack of school places hits my area.

We have one of the highest density building projects in the whole country going on right now.

In September 2015, not only will the intake for Primary schools be at their highest ever (requiring an entire 2-FE Primary school) through both higher levels of birth AND influx of families into brand new housing, BUT the current 'largest' school year, which has bulge classes, and classes well in excess of 30, will be starting Secondary school. We also need a new Secondary school for 2015!

I am particularly concerned, as I will have DS2 starting Secondary in September 2015, AND DS3 starting Primary at the same time. So I could be facing a Secondary age DS2 without an accessible Secondary place at the same time as having DS3 without an accessible Primary place, with no way of getting either of them to these schools, as DS2 has SN's and won't cope with public transport alone (but will still be in MS school), and DS3 ALSO has SN's...and I can't drive due to disability.

Frankly, I'm shitting bricks and trying to ignore it!

Today a site has been found for the new Primary school - but it is too far away to have any effect on the intake of the schools that could be considered OUR local schools. Still no firm plans for Secondary places, despite the fact that the LA has known for 5 years already that the local Academy will be unable to cope.

Our towns infrastructure doesn't support public transport on time to non local Secondaries, because the traffic gets snarled every morning at a bottleneck in both directions, preventing bus travel to other Secondaries.

Should be fun then, they have 2.5yrs to find a site AND build a Secondary - problem is, they already KNOW they are working over a year behind schedule and it won't be open in time for September 2015.

So quite what will happen to DS2'a intake is beyond me...

September 2015, current conservative estimates show that there will be a shortfall of between 127-157 Primary places in one end of the town alone, and a shortfall of around 135 Secondary places. And that's working in the LA's rather hopeless formula that allows NO children in flats that are being built, ONE child in 2-bed houses that are being built, 1.5 children in 3-bed houses that are being built, and 2 children in the few 4-bed houses that are being built.

My experience in this town is more like 2 DC's in flats, 2/3 in 2-bed houses, 3/4 in 3-bed houses, and anything from 4-10 DC's in 4-bed houses...

I think their estimates are going to be found to be wildly inaccurate, even allowing for houses where no school age children are resident...

Like I said, a perfect shitstorm approaching...

Where I live all the primary schools are oversubscribed and last year there were newspaper reports about people getting school placements that they would not be able to walk to and which would involve driving across town to.

When I was a child in the same town there were more spaces available for people to join in the middle of a year from what I remember.

I am lucky in that I got my eldest into a bulge class in 2nd-nearest school last year and so next will get in on a sibling place.

We need to blame the last government as well as this one though - they have known about 2008/2009/2010 baby booms and immigration for some time.

My kids school have been promised a new building for years. Promised by previous labour government. Still no sign of actual new building....just a series of portacabins taking over the playground. The staff are wonderful and doing a great job but it seems it would be much easier with good purpose-built accommodation instead of 1950s prefabs and portacabins.

There,s variety of reasons why.

some regionally specific.

1)rising birthrate.

2)recession-less people go private.Fees in london/south east independents much higher than south west or wales for example.

3)economic migration people move wheres thres jobs so that means london, south east, other large cities and towns.

4. lack of money commuting long distances by car, train, bus very expensive so people choose to live and work same place. 5)people cant afford to move I know we cant most people choose to stay out and extend.

6)those who do move put to surroundimg area ie essex , kent just put problems with numbers on them the shortages spread.

7)immigration maybe just here but find different cultures drawn to specfic areas almost like a ghetto.
Im in outer mostly white leafy suberbs yet the rc school has high amount of polish kids.People I know in more urban areas seem to talk more about somali kids.

8)social housing-most are new build has as every developer has to build so many affordble homes so those offered would not have much choice I guess if they want a home they go where houses are then find out theres no school places.

9)The extremes of bad schools in city makes the good areas and good schools very oversubscribed.I guess if all schools were good situation be better.

10)faith schools overcoplicate some areas,
Love idea of bilingial schools we have none here that sounds good.

The free schools suggested are

steiner
all through 3-18-cant say im keen that idea
or other side of city.

lot of sink seniors and now primaries now academies by name but still doing rubbish.

Not sure what happened there. I'm not illiterate really! There should be 3 sentences, not one mammoth one

Not much immigration here (unless you count those who move out of Clapham for a bit more space!) but there people who are here cannot afford to move so where they would have moved further out they haven't but mainly there are lots of people who would have educated privately that are now looking at state.