Parenting: Cameron's childhood adviser says we're all getting it wrong. Is she right?

It totally depends where you live.
Until recently we lived on a large estate, and the kids there had basically the same childhood (as far as running round outside, and no activities), as I had.
Some of them have good parents, and will probably do OK in school etc, whereas others were just totally left to their own devices, and went off the rails.
It's not the scheduling or not scheduling of activities that counts for much, it's the culture you live in, and whether respect for others and education are valued in your world, or not, and also whether your parents are coping, or, for whatever reason, they are not.
Those are the things that matter to children's development.

For the record, though morethan there are NO free activities in my LEA, other than one museum. No free swimming, dance, gymnastics for those on low, and very low, incomes.

I see what PureQuintessence is saying about children in Norway being more independent etc, but I have been to Norway, and I can see that there would be a world of difference being "independent and street smart" in Norway and independent and street smart in , say, Tottenham.
The "scrapes" that a British urban kid might get themselves into would likely be a Hell of a lot more serious than in Norway, so I just don't think it's comparable.

more was that at me? I didn't specify which particular lower-income band i was referring too, just that some parents couldn't afford extra-curricular activities.

I'm sorry but I don't agree with dc born into poverty not being able to access extra curricular activities.
Some LEA's, I'm not sure if its all, offer free lessons and activities in sport, music, drama, dance etc. I know because a few low income families attending the groups my dd attends are entitled to them. Children born into poverty/low income families are encouraged to engage their dc.
It is becoming more apparent that those attending are either very poor, very rich, with not so many poorer working class.

She is wrong in my opinion.

Children are afforded far more rights and respect than the 50's, 60's and 70's and that is right. No one wants to see corporal punishment and early school leaving back to where they were.

People hark back to the halcyon days when children could roam the streets without constant scheduling. Well guess what, lots of children in deprived areas still roam the streets day and night and we dont see them outperforming their over-scheduled middle class counterparts.

The biggest determining factor in a childs health and happiness is the circumstances of their birth. Born poor and neglected, well you are probably going to stay that way.
Born poor but loved and nurtered, well just maybe if you are very bright you might just climb out of poverty but no one will help you or your parents.

So really little changes, despite the chatter

Rather than worry about the very small minority of youngsters whose lives are ruined by too many extra-curricular activities, Clare should focus on the much larger group whose families are unable to afford extra-curricular activities and are unlikely to attend university.

Curryeater

Yes, I think many parents are led to believe that they need to have lessons and activities from a very early age.
I don't think it is always a middle class thing, but think it is mainly considered middle class as they can afford the fees. I have also heard some parents of dc wanting to gain places at selective schools say the extra curricular activities can be a deciding factor in entrance, if there are many with the same academic scores.
I see many dc doing lots of activities and often wonder if they have any time for play, considering they may have homework as well.

I think I was a bit too flippant with my first response to Point 2.
I agree that children need guidance, monitoring and reining in where internet and social media are concerned - and I will be doing it as necessary with DSs when they are old enough (currently 5 and 5m, so not an issue just yet)

I wonder if the people who allow their well-below age children to play 18+ games on XBox etc. check up on their children's internet usage? Just curious, really - no agenda with that question.

DS1 does 3 activities outside of school - football, dancing and swimming. Swimming = essential life skill, non-negotiable. Football = once a week currently, although DH wanted him to join the local U6 team, which would require training 1-2 nights a week and matches every Sat, which I think is a bit much (DH never got around to organising it so too bad). Dancing should have only been once a week but the schedule got messed up so now it's 2 nights a week. DS1 gets plenty of free play time as well and is really good at imaginative play (I like to listen to him but I'm not allowed to interrupt/ join in/ comment in any way)

"Are parents being led to believe that the only way their child will be able to do a forward roll is if they pay for them to go to activities like the Little Gym from the age of 2?"

But if you PAY to send your child to The Little Gym, you are DRIVING THE ECONOMY and that is what this govt is all about.

(I congratulate myself, smugly, that my 3 year old can do everything in water that those who have been to "swimming lessons" can do - not because I taught her, but because she taught herself. No way am I paying for swimming lessons till I believe she will come out of them able to swim tens of lengths, in a stroke. But if everyone was like me, reusing everything and scrounging pennies and cutting the unchewed halves of dcs' abandoned apples into segments and serving them for lunch, then the economy would collapse. Oh right, it has, because no one can afford to do anything else)

Curryeater.

No, its all in bits as my computer was really playing up at the time. I always meant to put it all together properly and should do really. If I can manage to get something together I'll send it pm, but don't expect too much. I only went to a glorified Polly, but I did get a 2.1.

If anybody is interested Plato made some good observations, and of course Piaget learning through play. Another good theorist was Huizinga, I liked him.

I don't think there's anything wrong with lots of activities if the child has time and energy for play.
Sometimes it turns out to be life changing for some.
My own dd plays 4 musical instruments and dances 3 times a week. Attends a string group and choir. She decided she wanted to give up school because the extra curricular music activities were what she wanted to do for a career. She is only 9 now and left school last year, obviously after much deliberation. I know though by now that something would have to have given, as the poor kid was nearly burnt out.

The weird thing about say The Times (front page) article I read was it appeared to make no reference to the context for the remarks at all (as far as I understood)

I agree with merrymouse that the context could make some difference ....
but she should have taken pains to ensure she gave them some context and perspective anyway otherwise she would look like an out of touch loon !

Also, I know those days aren't coming back, but I think the golden age for students fending for themselves at uni was when they got full grants and housing benefit...

Is it clear why she made the comments in the first place? - if somebody asked her "do you approve of so called 'helicopter parenting' - is it a good idea to involve your child in as many activities as possible - are parents being led to believe that the only way their child will be able to do a forward roll is if they pay for them to go to activities like the Little Gym from the age of 2?", I think her remarks were justified, particularly as she is supposed to be advising on the commercialisation of childhood. (Although, I think most parents aren't that stupid/well off).

If the question was "what is the most important problem facing children in the UK today", then her reply would clearly have been misguided.

Polka, I dont think you read or understood my post properly.

Well that's not me I don't have the money or energy for non stop activites with 5 kids. I work full time and like to actually sit down some times that's what free time is for they do there thing I do mine. As for coping in uni isn't that what teaching them household chores and how to manage money is for.
Point 2 with e teenager keeping a track of their texts and internet isn't easy but I try they change their passwords and delete texts now knowing I check . The younger 2 are supervised on the pc and don't have phones. Despite My 9 yr old Dd trying

Jeez I wondered when the perfect Nordic way if parenting would appear again.

Our kids are British kids,can we just stop with the proclaiming of all things Nordic as being the parenting ideal.

Utterly bored of it!

I must - and probably do - live in the small section of society to which perry refers because its rife here. I barely know a girl who doesn't dance twice a week!

Line runner 'when the inagination starts working is called play' YES but you believe the same is true for electronic games??

Certainly between the hours of four and seven allowing for travel etc I seriously wonder how other parents fit stuff in ...

I am not a great fan of extra curricular stuff but my 10 year old does an hour on a Thursday and half an hour on a Monday - I know that on these days cooking and clearing up dinner tiny bit of home work bath story bed - there is very little time for much else
On weekends I gave noticed an increasing trend for activities - that coupled with the ubiquitous party ten miles away can easily eat up a day

I agree with all the comments on play, plus the comment made by a pp on childcare ratios, to have unstructured activites, letting children play and learn as they please takes a lot of people to allow this.

I also do not recognise the idea of children with never ending activities and wonder if it is a small section of society that Claire sees or reads about in the papers, (thinks of the various weekend papers sections). DS (6yo) does two outside activities, swimming and karate. I see both of them as getting rid of some energy, meeting friends, developing physically and giving him skills to be independent as he grows up. Arranging playdates is never a problem and in the near future I see him being able to walk to friends houses like I used to do. We live in a village and his friends are 5 / 10 mins walk away which makes a difference.

Claire Perry is employed by Cameron to get him favourable headlines.

No such thing as getting parenting all right or all wrong. There are diffent ways of parenting within different classes; and some variations on the norm.

Yes. I think she is right.

Compared to Norway, British children are "babied". A Lot.

But what is the alternative? In Norway you have open spaces, children playing out every where, learning to be independent, picking blueberries, making dens in the woods. Have mostly big gardens with trampolines and some such. Friends running in and out.

Ferrying children around to activities, having every day of the week taken by Violin, Stage Coach, Kumon, Tutoring, Dance, etc, I think it is a British Urban (middle class?) phenomenon.

Getting a "playdate" arranged is neigh impossible, everyone is so busy.

In Norway children mostly do ONE activity, like Football, gymnastics, riding, skiing, music, and the rest of the time is spent having leisure time with friends. Visiting in groups, going to the local football or basket ball pitch, or meet up with a group to go skiing, even at primary age.

The flip side of this independence is minimal parental involvement and guidance, bullying, teasing, getting into scrapes, whereas the parents say "well, I was not there, the kids will have to sort it out between themselves". They become incredibly street smart and "independent", but at a cost to both self confidence and ability to concentrate in school, as the "unrest" will bleed into the school environment as well. Kids who are used to do what they want, rarely react well to discipline from teachers.

While I agree with some of the point she is making, which I suspect she has seen from her very narrow group of peers, I dont think it is so harmful as she make it out.

I tend to agree.. (waiting for the flaming!) I work with children and a lot are micro managed with after school clubs every day. I think some times there is too much going on in there little lives. Also i DO agree that very young children have acsess to the internet and it IS a dangerous place IF not controlled.
I see young children with expensive media 'toy' as that what they are to them and they are the gateway to a lot of trouble IF unsupervised.

My neice (8) shown told me about a man that was trying to add her on bbm, asking how old she was ect. (could have been perfectly innocent) but it made me uneasy, so i spkoke to her mum about it.

My daughter when she was 10 ( a good few years ago) was added by a 'girl' on facebook that was actually using her friends pictures as her 'own' god knows who it was? cue me send them a message about reporting to the police.Fast forward 5 years,I seen my daughter on pic that some one had posted of her on her facebook wall, I had sneaked on it when she wasnt looking (yes i did go there!) She was in a pub with several of her friends..'enjoying a birthday drink' it seems! Cue her getting rollocked and grounded... so yes some snooping/control must go on on as giving young children/teenagers unsupervised trust is rubbish.

morethanpotatoprints, your dissertation sounds interesting, can you provide a link? (very cheeky, fully prepared to accept the answer "no")

So wrong, it's really strange how they can be so far from the truth.

B