New NHS guidelines on IVF treatment to extend age limit up to 42 - what do you think?

@juggling -one example here

www.nhsggc.org.uk/content/default.asp?page=s762&loc_id=2533

Have just googled and apparently NHS spends £4 million a year on homeopathic treatments and there are 4 NHS homeopathic hospitals, in London, Bristol, Liverpool, and Glasgow.

If they want to turn these into places where simple counseling and a holistic approach are offered then fine, but the treatments don't make any sense IMO !

Sorry for the thread diversion !

One thing I will say, I have. been dismayed to read the nastiness and insensitivity on this thread.

Everyone has their own view on where the nhs pound should be spent which will, no doubt, be based on something highly emotive in their own family. Being sensitive to that, and wording posts sensitively, would enable everyone to feel free to give their own opinions. No-one should have to give painful details to prevent being flamed for holding their opinion.

MNtowers didn't open this thread for the comments of infertile women (an assumption based on the fact the op did not include that rule) so shouting someone down based on their fertility status is appalling. As it would be the other way round.

Please, everyone posting on here, read your comments before posting them and ask yourself how you would feel if anyone said that to you.

Since you mention homeopathy Kristina - does NHS funding still support homeopathic treatments ? I have a feeling there's an NHS Homeopathic hospital in London - favoured by Prince Charles ? (not sure if that's right ?)

Well if we're looking to make some cuts IMHO they should be a contender !

I'm all for talking treatments, counseling, and holistic approaches, but taking a scientific approach, for me homeopathy is a step too far !

I had babies at 41 and 42 ( without any treatment or problems conceiving ) . I'm now in my 50 s and I'm fitter and more active than many women half my age,including I suspect , most of those on this thread airily dismissing me as " middle aged" .

Why should couples who are infertile not have the same chances that I have had to have a biological child? It's very selfish to argue that the NHS should prioritise care that I and my family need while not providing services to others. Infertile couples pay their taxes and NI too. I don't see why they are any less " deserving" than eg patient who have breast enlargement for psychological reason ( not after cancer ) , tattoo removal, homeopathy, smoking cessation, treatment for drug addiction,

IMO There is a lot of prejudice on this thread.if anyone posted that black people or Jews were not good parents it would, quite rightly, be removed. But people feel quite happy to say sweepingly that " middle aged" women ( and they do mean women, no one has mentioned older fathers) won't make good parents.

Off for a run now with some other geriatric mums who are training for a marathon < waves goodbye to smug 30 something mums sitting on sofa watching Jeremy Kyle while stuffing their faces with junk food and congratulating themselves on their youth and longevity >

Actually, i don't think people are aware. I mentioned Africa as its where i live. From my perspective, ivf shouldn't be prioritized over basic maternity:children's services. Recent reports into nhs children's services found huge failings which have led to many avoidable deaths. Now that is outrageous, not my own opinion to which i have every right..

Salbertina, it's outrageous that you (and I believe other's) can suggest that infertility is not an illness. It is also incredibly patronising to state that when women are comparing themselves or the access they have to medical funding in the UK is meaning that they are in anyway suggesting their circumstances are comparable to those living in Africa, of course women here are aware of those issues faced.

Having only skim read the posts from overnight, I'm disappointed to see that there has been a barrage of people continuing to post such insensitive posts. I really would have thought that with the number of couples having infertility issues being at a record high of something like 1 in 9 (or is it even 6) that most people aren't going through life without coming across someone that needs it.

Infertility may not be deemed as 'an illness' by many but how dare people suggest that cancers that have caused it or endometriosis aren't.

I think having a child is not a right - it's a responsibilty. The world would be much better if everyone who had a child (or many children) thought about what benefits they could offer their child rather than the other way round.

Re the raised age limit, imho, it would be better to have a lower age limit but the same rules applied in all areas of the country so that everyone with infertility has the same opportunity to have IVF.

Thanks guys nope not a topic we can just discuss. Jarmo I do get what you are saying DH and I have a plan for when we call it quits probably soon as we won't be doing IVF again due to me not agreeing with the drugs and the horror that I was.

I am a nurse in the NHS so know how much money there isn't but these are only guidelines and most NHS trusts don't follow the current ones so its not like its going to cost anymore. Anyhow it's fine and sunny here in Scotland probably the only one we will have so am off out to enjoy it.

Am sorry cat that it's an upsetting thread for you.

Not something people can just discuss dispassionately is it ?

Much love and luck to all here x

Truly sorry to hear that, Cat

I'm sorry for your loss jasmo

But childlessness through choice (as a 'lifestyle choice' is really very different from infertility, and the illnesses and conditions which are often associated with infertility.

I'm not sure there are that many women who think 'Ace, I'll delay having a child until I'm 40 then expect the NHS to pick up the tab'. There really aren't.

All I was saying is that infertility isnt always going to resolved with a pregnancy and what then.. At some point you have to accept the circumstances of your life and do your best to go forward. I have to accept that I lost a much loved child and wont get him back but that life goes on and there is a path for me, DH and other kids in spite of that. My Sister is infertile and I have the greatest empathy with her plight but she is now 74 so never had the chance of IVF..... so please see the joy and beauty in what you have and dont dwell on what is denied to you!

Sorry no I didn't see that (sad). Having just had a failed ivf cycle I am going to leave as this thread is just to upsetting.

If you have a baby at 42 your child will be a teenager when you're in your mid 50's. Most people at that age are perfectly active enough to offer everything a teenager needs - mainly providing a taxi service to various social events in my experience ! I don't think they're too bothered if you don't go to the disco with them and their friends !
I just think this sort of argument is over-stated.
Sometimes yes illness may affect your family, but this can happen to any of the family at any age and is largely unpredictable.
IMHO 5 or 10 years in the woman's life is really neither here nor there in terms of their ability to form a good bond with their child.

Am so sorry to hear of your loss Jasmo

Jasmo, sorry that was yo Cat. Really sorry to hear about yr dc

Sadly we all have stuff to get over. Did you read the poster's story about the death of her 19 yr old dc??? And you say "yhanks for that"

I think losing an adult child in tragic circumstances has made me a fairly sensitive person even if I wasnt before! That is a tragedy .......not childlessness which is a lifestyle choice for many and does open other doors in life. Focus on all the things you can do not the one you cant.

Oh god so that's all I have to do to get over never having a child find another path as its oh so easy cheers for that.

Cat- we all have our health issues, should i list all mine? None of which can be treated for free where i am and where infertility treatment is never state funded- too many people dropping dead v young of HIV/TB/malaria/malnutrition. Now they're the second class citizens! I am not insensitive, just realistic about what priorities should be.

I take it you have never been through the horror that is years of infertility or the soul destroying experience is is to have a failed ivf cycle that you have had to pay for as the NHS trust where we live cut of is 38 and there is a 2 year wait. If you had you might have a little bit more sensitivity.

I became unexpectedly pregnant at 42 and found it v hard work and now in mid 50s whilst I adore my youngest I certainly dont get to do what my peer group do because of late motherhood. I dont think being an older parent is great for parent or child. My parents were in their mid 40s when I came along so speak from both sides of the experience. I suggest that if you cant have your own baby and reach 35+ you accept it and get on with something else. Life is not ever perfect and we all carry our own disappointments and sorrows ( I have had a child die aged 19.. makes infertility seem realtively easy to cope with!) so find another path and get on with it. The NHS should be to save life, help with disability and chronic non self inflicted health problems, the reckoning day is very close when it will be unable to provide even basic care for the elderly so why burden it still further!

And come live in Africa if you seriously feel like a second class citizen!

Not at all disgusting!! Its my view that it should not be a priority over maternity/children's services with a limited pot. Nothing unreasonable about that. I am very sorry to hear about your problems and it is a shame that everything is not affordable on the nhs.

Words fail me about how disgusting that statement is Salbertina. So because my DH and I are infertile due to his coeliac disease we are second class citizens and not worthy of any NHS help.