New NHS guidelines on IVF treatment to extend age limit up to 42 - what do you think?

Do you REALLY think the NHS has money to fund IVF for ANYONE these days?

We are talking about older women trying IVF here. The NHS has always had an age cut off. I have not invented the age issue. Nor have I invented the fact that men on the whole can have children older than women can.

If are seeking to ensure as few babies are born for the good of the planet that does not quite site well will an extension of IVF availability on the NHS.

My point about if you dont' have it on the NHS you may well not have it was to the poster saying that she thought it cheaper for the NHS to give IVF free as those who do not use that service otherwise go private and have quads or whatever and cost the NHS. I do not agree the priate clinics are worse and mess things up and secondly plenty of those denied NHS treatment could not in a month of Sundays afford IVF so I was simply discussing that issue that it was being said it was cheaper for the NHS in the long run if it funded it.

As to whether I have been handed things on a plate who can say? I chose to marry young because I want th ebest chance to have babies and i was reading up about fertility when I was 14. I would call that planning rather than handed things on a plate and there are sacrifices in that course. You don't spend your 20s at parties and drinking but working full time, dressing your babies in second hand Oxfam clothes and working full time when they are 3 weeks old. Yes choices but the choices I felt were most likely to mean I had a large family and could continue to be able to support them through my career. My other choice is to eat well, stay slim, not drink or smoke. It is probably not just luck I am healthy although I agree that plenty of women of 38 trying for a baby have never drunk or smoked and only eat good foods and still cannot get pregnant.

As I know there are no rules, right or wrong ways to live your life. I married at 26, was a Mother at 27, I was a bereaved mother at 44, childless, I was a Mother at 46 to three, I thank God for my donor and the skill of my IVF team. Yet people who don`t know me judge me on having children so late in my life.

Was diagnosed with fertility problems at 18. For many women, if not most, it's fuck all to do with the 'choice' to 'leave it too late'.

Gosh Xenia. Well done you for making such wise choices. And for finding a man willing to marry so young. If only I'd known it was just hard work that could find me the perfect man.

I think the new guidelines are great. It's been said before, but everyone deserves a chance at least.

Actually, now I think about it, the song might be about a pink and a blue toothbrush. But never mind.

Somewhat off topic, but can I just say that your username makes me smile and sing in my head everyone I see it, rtb :)

Xenia, lacks the capacity to understand she has led a charmed life and pretty much had everything handed to her on a plate.

You can work hard within that to achieve your ultimate goals but still have things handed to you on a plate.

She is privileged and out of touch with the realities most of us face. Nothing more to really more to add to that.

most people who can't have it on the NHS won't have it at all.... Where on earth did you pull that fact from?

Here's a fact. I met my husband when I was 15. The reason we had IVF is biological not age related.

You also haven't really grasped the concept of non-age-related infertility. If I had started trying to have children when you suggest, I would still not have succeeded, so what difference does it make to you whether the NHS treats me for my condition at age 22, 32 or 42?

For someone with an allegedly high IQ, your EQ is so low as to be negligible.

You truly are talking nonsense Xenia - no one is suggesting unlimited IVF and what on earth do you base tout assertion on that most people turned down for NHS treatment will never have IVF at all. How the fuck do you know that????

We remortgaged our house to fund our treatment we were so desperate. We were also responsible enough to stop at 2 children, unlike you.

Your ignorance of the facts and lack of empathy is breathtaking. What a shame you decided to pass on your delightful genes.

'I hate the stupid statements about women who shouldn't have left it so late - totally hurtful.'

And misogynist.

As another poster put it, women can't win - don't have kids until you're married, own a home, have a stable career so you don't take a penny in state support, and if you then find out you're infertile, it's your fault for 'leaving it too late'; do anything otherwise and you're a feckless scrounger.

There are choices. You can date men at 21 who might marry you. You can make that a focus. I did. I am not saying it's easy. You can have babies without am an if babies are so important to you. Plenty of women work full time and are sole supporters of their children.

Also private clinics have to follow rules. We have some of the best and most regulated private clinics on the planet and they do not nowadays implant huge numbers at once although I agree that some people may go abroad where there is worse regulation. There needs to be some limit as someone with a 5% chance of conceiving is going to have unlimited IVF on the NHS whilst other people die. Most people who cannot have it on the NHS won't have it at all so the argument that they will pay someone who does it badly and the NHS will pick up the tab is not that convincing to me.

Hi anon, thanks for sharing your positive story :) I'm glad things worked out for you.

Yes, hopefully I will be as lucky. I am still optimistic :)

patienceisvirtuous I am a few years older than you but had exactly the same experiences. The man I met at 35 is the man I went onto have two children with and we're all together still, a very happy family. I hope you do find the same. There are more of us now than the women who had babies at 25, statistically. Ignore the hurtful comments, they're not personal, just ignorant.

You only have to look at LRD's thread in Chat on academic careers to see how, for so many women, having children was the kiss of death for their careers in that arena.

I love the way Xenia thinks we all had a choice to settle down and have babies in our twenties.

It takes two people! And lots of men aren't ready to take that step then. I had my mid twenties and early thirties wasted (in child bearing terms) by two non-committal men who said they wanted the same as me then changed their minds three years in. On both occasions it took a couple of years to meet someone new - there is a decade gone 24-34.

I was about to go it alone after my last relationship broke down but I have just met someone new at 35 - so here I take a risk with my time again. I hope that if, because of my age, I need help to have a family I get it because it's all I have wanted since I can remember.

I hate the stupid statements about women who shouldn't have left it so late - totally hurtful.

YY very helpful post Edam

Thanks Captain. Facts are always useful - although often ignored. I was surprised when I looked at the research back when the first NICE guideline came out - but people often argue from assumptions rather than from facts.

Edam - thanks, it's good to get some proper researched POVs. That was a v helpful post. : )
I think being able to cut out the economic argument also really highlights that the backlash against the higher ivf limit is based on a more insidious and deep-rooted distaste at older mothers, alongside an utterly contradictory attitude towards older fathers.

I thought it was a brilliant insightful comment Ariel.

Mr Cameron is sat there in no 10 plotting, going how can I win back all these women. I know its about 'allowing' them to have children. If they are able to have children they will all be happy and I'll get hundreds of thousands more votes.

I will get my people to put pressure on NICE. I'll send the boys round to those people who have been working on this report for the last year or so and threaten them with losing their careers if they can't come up with the evidence to support my masterplan.

I won't however, then see it through at hospital level and put pressure on the hospitals to actually follow this guidance. Oh no, there will be no political benefit to actually making it work and making women really see that this guideline is supportive of couples facing fertility, and it won't be damaging to have even wider postcode differences with the NHS.

Those women are stupid you see, really stupid, and will only see this headline and not the reality and that will make them all change their vote.

Now as much as people think that Cameron is sexist. And as much as people think that the government sees the public as stupid.

There are limits.

Cameron needs the female vote, hence the NICE guidelines? Because of course infertility doesn't affect men, ever.

Xenia, you do talk some utter rubbish.

If we gave all that was needed to IVF then children already alive would die.

No they wouldn't. The things that would be cut first if more rationing was needed would none essential treatment that wasn't life threatening. Thats of course, is assuming you actually believe the NHS is broke and not just incompetent and being run by clueless pen pushers.

Perhaps we should consider compulsory sterilisation of women who have two children to control population and perserve NHS funds. Or make them pay for maternity care after 2 children as, after all, it was a lifestyle choice to have them rather than have an abortion. And if you can't afford that than you can't afford to have another child and support them. Hey Xenia? What do you think? Do you think other people can be as controversial as you?