Child-free flight zones: what do you think?

Dragon I take it you fly with young children on a regular basis?!? I hope you get to meet her with a squirmy 11 month old.

The problem with air travel today is that people who fly 3-4 times a year on short haul flights think they are frequent flyers. They are not. When you fly out at least twice a month and do at least 5-6 long haul flights a year you are a frequent flyer. I have been a frequent flyer up until this year and won't be for the next few years as my new job is local for the time being. DH is a frequent flyer (currently in Dallas/Houston) this week in my 39th wk of pregnancy. He has only gone because United guarenteed him a seat on the next flight back home if I go into labour. They do that for frequent flyers - top tier with United.

When I was downgraded with SAS what surprised me the most was the number of passengers who were buzzing the crew. When I needed water for DD I got up and walked to the back of the plane with my bottle and DD. These passengers were buzzing every five minutes. If you are thirsty then ask for two drinks when they come around with the cart or a full can of whatever you want. Even when flying business or first (not flown first in a while as most flights are now business/econ only) I either get what I need to drink when they are distributing drinks or stop off after a trip to the bathroom.

Fair enough, I would have been annoyed with her behaviour and attitude. I have never been treated with anything other than courtesy and often kindness when travelling with children. I still wouldn't have told her to fuck off but I can understand in the heat of the moment you may have done although I wouldn't be defending it later.

Your subsequent posts put a different spin on things.

As I said, I didn't have a problem with her taking the cream. I had a problem with her pulling apart everything in the diaper bag. Is it necessary to open up every diaper, every container of food and touch said food with unwashed hands?

As it happens I bought the cream from the travel section of our local baby store. It was a 4oz tube of cream and didn't have ml on it. The lady said 4oz is 120ml not 100ml. I explained i didn't know how many ml it was but that it was diapercream for DD, not for myself or DH, and I didn't expect to have any left by the time we reached our destination as DD gets diaper rash easily. She was short with me and I just said 'Ok - bin it.' It wasn't said with attitude or malice. I 'get' she was just doing her job.

What wasn't necessary was for her to decide to pick on me. She abused her position and the end result was that security guidelines were not met. DD didn't have a boarding card and was able to proceed. If this woman had been competent she wouldn't have let us through for that reason. It was very rude to empty all of my ziplock bags into a big pile and then use her arm to push everything to the side, especially as I had tried to put down one of the trays but was told to stand back and not touch anything. This was when things fell on the floor and were covered in applesauce (which she had opened). When we got on the plane we realized we lost not only diapers but pacificers, a spoon and the spare ziplock bags that use for dirty diapers/clothes/puke bags. She got the fbomb because of this, not because of the diaper cream per se. While I dropped the f bomb I did wipe the floor clean with a wipe so others who were having their shoes tested wouldn't be stepping on applesauce.

And none of that makes it OK to tell someone to go fuck themselves.

I do know and follow the rules.

Well obviously you didn't otherwise she wouldn't have needed to remove things from you...

Flight from Denmark to NY is 8 hours. The flight is normally delayed by at least an hour and we have to be there 3 hours before take off. I plan for a minimum of 12 hours worth of supplies for DD. We change her ever 2 hours on flights as she pees and poops so much so I pack a ziplock bag with 6 diapers, a small pack of wipes and a tube of cream. I then have a spare ziplock bag for spares. I have another ziplock with 6-8 diapers in there, more wipes but no cream. Bottle wise I had 4 bottles which were empty. She took the lids off and touched the nipples with her unwashed hands. I then had four sterile pots of formula which were opened and contaminated. The fruit sauces were in foil seals so once opened I had to throw them out as they didn't have lids. For the flight I would have had 4 meals with me. Three for the trip and a spare for emergency/ first meal when we get to our destination.

DD was on lactose free formula which wasn't available at the airport. They also didn't have a good range of diaper creams (choice of two). We use a 40% zinc oxcide cream which they didn't have. They also didn't have sterile bottles. We ended up getting a pack of wrapped straws and bottles of water. They didn't have gripe water and the one we had was contaiminated when she tested it by touching the dropper with her finger.

I do know and follow the rules. I didn't have a problem with her taking the cream as she was right. I had an issue with her attitude towards us. To be clear I told her to go f herself after she pushed our things along (some of which fell on the floor) and told us to hurry up as we were holding others up. We live in the US and had left the US and the UK with said tube of diaper cream.

It is shocking that people on here think it is ok for someone to touch food that is going to be eaten (we are not talking about touching a banana peel) with unwashed hands. The security workers are touching all sorts of things that have been goodness knows where. At airports you have people coming together from all parts of the world, all bringing their unique mix of germs through security. That lady had touched goodness knows how many bags, let alone the contents. There was no way I was going to risk giving DD any of the food that she had touched. Quite funny how I see this as common sense while others see it as entitled. Also, how would you feel knowing at the start of your trip you were going to have to scramble to find food for your DD before getting to the gate?

How long is the flight from Denmark anyway - couple of hours tops I'd have thought.

How many nappies and bottles woud you need? How much barrier cream?

Quite agree that want2besupermum has only herself to blame. The rules are clear and haven't changed for ages. I fly with my DCs (and have been flying in sole charge of two of them since the younger was 4months old), always take food, but have never had any trouble with security because I follow the rules.

If you choose to fly with small children you need to be properly organised rather than expecting special treatment just because you have children with you - see lots of comments from people earlier in the thread about how not to disturb other passengers on flights. Travelling with children requires forward planning, organisation and a lot of energy.

It's not as if the rules aren't clear either! I check every time I fly as I was under the impression that I couldn't take food through and there's not much gluten free stuff in departure or on the plane. Turns out solid food is fine. Powdered formula is fine and I've never been refused boiling water on a plane.

I watched a family with twins of less than a year old negotiating the airport last week and it was faultless. They should give seminars!

I think I may have been stuck behind entitled mum too. She kept repeating "but I have children!" as if that is justification for massive cans of hairspray and water bottles

You can take as much powder as you like in hand luggage so long as it's within usual weight limits and you declare it at customs for places like Australia who have restrictions on importing food.

You can buy cartons of formula and baby food in the departure lounge once you've cleared security.

I get very nervous at airports anyway and I was fit to scream after following one family with the attitude described above through security.

The rules are clear. Just pack what you need, get there early and buy what you need for the flight in departure

Muji do really good little pots for decanting product into. Try those rather than inappropriate outbursts. You will all feel better :)

Want2bSupermum, no sympathy.

Read the rules on whats allowed in luggage. Airlines publicise them well. Its
especially true if you are flying to the US, as they have extra strict rules and enforce them heavily.

You were poorly organised and only have yourself to blame. You can take cream on flights - provided you take it in the appropriate quantity.

I actually smirk at idiots who have all their really expensive make up and perfume removed from them at security these days as its not hard to find and follow the rules.

Wow. What a ridiculous sense of entitlement and rudeness on your part Want2be. Just because you're a parent doesn't mean you can break the rules! Babies and children travelling are given special dispensation already. To think you deserve extra special treatment because you are a parent is breathtaking.

Yes we've flown round the world with baby/children and never had any problems because we stuck to the rules and were polite. When we accidentally left suncream in our bag we apologized and binned it. The powdered talc and formula always caused our bags to be emptied and we would move to the side to repack.

I never took offence because being blown up is a much greater inconvenience than understanding and following procedures.

Telling someone who is doing their job to go fuck themselves is inexcusable.

And if you don't like people doing their job at airport security, don't fly.

I just think telling someone to go fuck themselves isn't good form, really.

I don't like to think that the options are that, or be a hermit.

Yes, but exhausted people have a habit of kicking off. If you don't like it, get a job as a hermit.

Parents are supposed to be treated with respect

As are members of staff.

Clarice, officers are supposed to ask parents to sample the baby food in front of them - putting fingers into it is not following guidelines and scientifically useless, not to mention it is quite common for people to fail to wash their hands after visiting the toilet, so completely breaking every food hygiene protocol in they then subsequently handle food for a baby.

In my experience, exceptions can always be made for diaper cream for babies, as they do for formula milk, as 100ml may not be enough for a long haul flight. Officer could have referred this upwards.

Parents are supposed to be treated with respect and not hustled along when they are trying to hold a baby and simultaneously repack a bag.

I think the security officer was impatient and officious.

'She would have been ok with us having diaper cream if it was in a tube that was less than 100ml or if we had a script for it from the doctor.'

Yes. Because it's her job to be OK if that had been the case, and not to be OK if it wasn't the case. If you know the rules why didn't you follow them?

How did she 'spoil' your daughter's food? Oh yes, sorry, by putting her fingers in it 'which had been goodness knows where'. What a nasty comment.

Telling someone to go fuck themselves is rarely justified and you're not being very convincing about this case being justifiable.

So, basically she was doing her job.

Yes I told her to f herself. She went through every single bottle putting her fingers which had been goodness knows where into our daughters food, including her formula. She took everything out of the bag by tipping it over. I had everything neatly organized and in ziplock bags. After going through everything, and I mean everything, she decided we couldn't take the diaper cream, which by that point had been around the world with no problems. She would have been ok with us having diaper cream if it was in a tube that was less than 100ml or if we had a script for it from the doctor. I was ok with her taking the cream. Annoyed but I figured I could change her every 2hrs and wash her with water instead of wipes.

My issue was that she then told us we had to pack everything up and get moving as we were holding people up. As she had tipped things out and pulled everything out of the ziplock bags there were things all over the place. I had an 11 month old squirming in my arms because she was 'testing' the stroller for explosives. I would never apologize for my comment because she could have asked before digging into the bag. She could have let me take everything out systematically, she could have tested the stroller first which would have enabled us to have put DD into a safe place. She didn't need to spoil all the food I had carefully packed down. Instead she 'did her job' which left DD without proper food for the flight and enough diapers.

As SAS wouldn't give us milk on the plane ('Other passengers need it for their coffee') we gave our DD water. Quite frankly if I ever saw the woman again I would happily put one of DD's squidgy pants diapers in her face. DH was upset with me swearing infront of our daughter. Once we got to our destination DD was not well and so much for security. DD wasn't on the flight manifest. So this woman, who was so dilligent about diaper cream, let someone through security without a boarding pass. Something I had raised when our tickets were issued and at the gate when we were boarding. Luckily the immigration officials in the US were fabulous with us (much to our surprise). They got me a chair because I had been sick on the flight (I was 4 months pregnant) and got DD's stroller from the baggage claim for us.

Actually, you did, by quoting my post and saying "You may change your mind about children being treated as second class citizens". But thanks for backtracking - it's the next best thing to an apology :)

I never said you did.