New childcare tax break to be announced by the Government today - what do you think?

Madame you misunderstand me. I'm not commenting at all on parents who choose to have someone else care for their children. I'm talking only about those of us who do not want this for our preschool aged children. It is not a frigging competition! It does not need to be one against the other .

I save more than that in tax now with vouchers AND can use them til DD is 15. Therefore it will help with after school care until she can look after herself.
So not only do I lose my child benefits I'm potentially losing out again. Kicking working mothers in the teeth Dave the Rave.

Does it really matter whether you are a SAHP or paying for child care? Whether you pay for childcare, reduce your hours to fit around school, take the 'mummy' career track or take a complete career break having children is expensive. I think most people just take the route that seems best for them at the time. Whatever we do we all loose money.

And by 'we' I am talking about women, as it is still women who are generally expected to curtail their career prospects/take the nursery bills out of their salary/stay at home/be available to attend PTA meetings/arrange flowers for the Big Society.

I think the main reason this policy is such a mess is because the government think of Child Benefit reduction as taking coffee money away from silly women who are too loud in Starbucks and in return we get some half arsed ill thought out rushed policy that doesn't even have proper details that coincidentally has to be announced on the same day that CB is taken away, a bit like a bunch of flowers from the garage because the silly women won't know any better.

The most chilling thing is that that the government assures us that they haven't run out of ideas yet...

Glitter there is no point trying to make this thread a sahp vs working parent thing.

This thread is not about the child benefit changes which do affect single earner families perhaps unfairly but about working people being able to deduct childcare costs from pre tax income.

Whatever your opinion about feminism and "what is best for children" surely you can see that it is fair and makes sense that a household where both parents work should receive (more) tax benefits for childcare as it is a necessary cost for them to go to work?

Inmysparetime - we are doing exactly that with the vouchers DH gets although its only half the amount now he got a better job with new employers. What is really annoying is that he is still using the same voucher provider but because he left one company scheme and joined another, he got clobbered with the loss of the £243k amount. Still, £124 is better than nothing.

As someone who is going to lose out on CB, and as someone who is self employed ( therefore been previously unable to benefit from the childcare voucher scheme), I am keen to see the detail of these proposals.
Personally though I just wish they had left CB alone, and the 2 proposals for CB and childcare schemes do seem to be more complicated than they needed to be.

I can't comment on this proposal because I can't find any details of it.

I would like to comment on the attitude that seems to be prevalent to parents who look after their own children during the working days. I think of myself as a Sahp, however I do also work freelance and so earn a relatively small amount annually, but below the tax threshold. I do this round the time my dh works. I may not be technically 'working' most of the time, but I tell you what I do work fucking hard all day every day at physically demanding work caring for small children. I actually work as hard as many in paid roles doing the same thing, ie childminders and nannies. Yet by some on this thread and by the Govt I seem to be viewed as some kind of shirker! The research evidence suggests that for a parent to care for their own under fives is one of the best options for their development that helps them be school ready, empathetic and grow into decent citizens. In my view it should be encourage and supported for all, not just a lucky few who somehow struggle to afford it. I feel most sorry for those on lower incomes who would like to care for their own children but cannot afford it. FGs we should be supporting parents.

My dh works extra over and above his regular job to earn more money because in his position with this qualifications this is currently easier for him than me, yet he loses 40% of that in tax, and now our cb has been removed too. He faces a pay cut later this year that will take him under that threshold and will likely cut back his other work so we can receive more cb, as it's not worth him doing extra for next to nothing (we have 4 dcs).

All I see is some Tory ideal about as many people as possible working (sahps and the child careers they will need to employ when they go out to work) and opinionated feminists who don't value the work of caring for children and think we should all work even if for next to nothing take home pay so we nearly never see our own children, just because that is the feminist thing to do. They can both fuck right off. I work hard, I paid tax before I had kids and will do again once they're all at school. Dh pays plenty of tax. We both work hard and our children are well cared for.

When we started our family cb was universal and there was a manifesto commitment for it to stay that way. Why would we expect it to be retrospectively taken away?

We must never return to transferrable allowances. Women fought for years for separate taxation and separate rights to own and keep and earn their own money.

Childcare full time for 3 children under 5 costs around £20k to £30k gross cost so about £50k of before taxed income in the UK. £2k is only going to help pin money second earner men/women who play at work.

I would much rather abolish all child benefit and tax credits for simplicity and have a very low flat tax.

Can't help thinking that all this 'ooh, you'd better give up your child benefit, you don't want to be caught in the nasty self assessment system' talk, is coming at the wrong time of year.

"Sorry HMRC, couldn't get my form in on time, I was getting stressed by all this talk of how complicated it would be!".

What happened to 'tax doesn't have to be taxing?'.

I may be cynical, but is this a way for the government to stop people using childcare vouchers to reduce their taxable pay, I.e. a way to push more families into the bracket with reduced or no child benefit?
Just saying.

If tax breaks for over 5s childcare (currently available through vouchers) are scrapped in the new policy it will be making it HARDER for both parents to work full time, harder for women to continue a career after children, it will be achieving the opposite of what they are saying it will. I'm fuming!

It's not even more generous than the current entitlements! How have the papers not picked up on this?! All this is is universalising the system without helping working parents one iota more (& if true about cap at school age, is cutting help)

Less expensive than nursery but we still have after school and holiday clubs to pay for.

Nothing has been confirmed, it would appear that new measures are for pre- schoolers leaving us guessing at what will be scrapped for the over 5s.
Going on the track record, I'm resigned to losing everything we thought we'd claw back after 4.5 years of twins in a private nursery now things are less expensive at school.

Can someone link to where it actually is reported that this would be capped at age 5? I haven't seen that other than on this thread.

Great, just what we need (not!)

I was made redundant in September, and have decided that I'll register with agencies for temping next October when ds2 starts school but will do some freelance work from home before then. Kids in part time childcare with some help from my parents and DS2 at school nursery class in mornings. My understanding is that under these proposals we might get a small tax break for a few months for DS2, but where childcare vouchers would have covered a lot of our costs for both of them from late September 2013, this won't. And we might not count as eligible for the tax break anyway, as I might not be working enough....

I also fear that having made child benefit so much more complicated and introduced unfairness, the next step will be to take it off households like ours was until September, and might be again - household income was a little above £50K but earnings were a 55%-45% split (I earned slightly more).

Grrrr.

Im so confused by this really am.

went back to work fulltime after eldest in 2007 for some reason I wanted to ensure i was settled before arranging childcare vouchers through my work as seem quite complex. My husband working fulltime too did it his side full amount £243 so I thourght they took 160 salary from gross and then paid nursery £243 in vouchers the i paid hubby 160 cash.

I then moved employers and dident get round to sorting it out through them .

I left work as we both worked fulltime, no family nearby . by time paid 800+nursery commute was left with £300 net , hardly saw hubby and missed out on lots time with my child.

We still kept on nursery for 1 day a week as she as settled , had freinds was good for her devlopment the 15hours funding term after her 3rd birthday helped at we stopped nursery and just did preschool-term time only.

She started school 2010 breckfast clubs £2.50 and after school clubs £7 I know one mum working with 4 and was paying for all 4 so £9.50 each a day 4*9.50 a day so £38 quid a day £190 a week she was full time but newly qualified secondry teacher.

I know people who use vouchers for explore learning centres as we considered that.

The breckfast club started at 8 too late for some and after school 5.30 too early,

Our nursery only did 8-6 hardly any go 7-7. we worked in retail so no cover for weekends and bank hols.

we since had 2kids.

my 3year olds september born so wont start school until sept 2014 weird you can defer them but no flexibility start them earlier.
She does mix of nursery from 18months and started preschool in september when she as 3 they now take from age 2 but the site and small space wouldent feel comfortable starting her there earlier or her younger brother.

Im splitting my 15hours between 2settings so

1half days preschool-3sessions-term time only so free as funding only covers term time.

But nursery she does whole day 8-5.
now shes egtting funding my term time bill will be cut by half but will have defecit s funding 32 weeks a year and private day nursery

is the 15hours free for all 3year olds being scrapped or means tested? at moment its universil.

the 2year old funding seems to be targeted at people on benefits and way of educating parents dn giving child extra support so they not behind when start school its not neccesarily childcare its about sure start and their policies.

We are using childcare vouchers through hubbys work which think saves us £40 a month as nursery 38 a day and 4week month £152 anc vouchers are £160.

I have a 20month old and really want to start him in nursery but unsure where i stand as if have 2preschoolers in nursery just one day a week its going to cost me £80 day -partially funded by nursery grant for 3year old but another year half before she starts primary.

Im hoping to set up own business this year and be self employed so currently if self employed i cant use vouchers but hubby still in work can do still.

We lost tax credits april.
we keeping child benefit as under 50k.
Although i admit the 2parent anomoly with cb unfair.
Whys it all families and not oaps?

I am sahm mum but hopefully not useless.
My husband works long hours
we have no family here.
living costs rising we dont lead the high life.
I have ruined my career we have no savings we get by.
I dont go have nails done or out for lunch.
I was on school pta, im peer supporter breastfeeding group @health clinic and on preschool commitee.

Preschools really struggling for numbers as people cant afford to fund it I have last terms bill to pay of £210 as its term after 3rd birthday which is jan but they couldent hold a place.

I learnt today that someone I know similar to me 3kids married,other half working sahm is getting tax credits, housing and her net income his salary and benefits is near enough my hubbys net take home pay and his gross is 41k.

Feel like tax credits is subsiding employers and making lower earners better off than middle high earners as their salaries are topped up more and then read oh well they need free 2year old place bit irksome not their fault as thats system we have but see it a lot.
I have 3kids and know some families with more than 3kids low wage who seem to have much more disposable income.

The systems so complex I cant work it out anymore.
so many changes I lose track.
just trying to work out how it affects us.

I cant wait to go back work im not sahm mum through choice more necessity,

It makes me want to do well this year in business plans as dont want to be reliant and at mercey of the governemnet whoevers in power but would like to see greater thourght, fairness applied and like to think yes we taxed to hilt but e get something back as at moment its robin hood rob peter to pay paul all it does is

put some people on middle incomes -in higher tax brackets
make the middle poorer
If the everage wage is 26k and ctc is being capped bow at 25k then only people under 25k will get tax credits.Also gone up from 16hours to 24 when employers cant give more hour whats happened to all the mums working 16hours have they lost it?

Makes me want to emigrate for sure. Its so depressing.

Yes, it is becoming significantly stressful not being able to budget properly because of the constant changes and rumours of changes.

NotAQueef, i think your DH should be taxed on anything over the £243 per month as a benefit in kind, although it may be that the NIC isn't due (not sure). If the scheme allowed, say, £1k pa for health insurance or £500 for gym membership as some of the flexible benefits, they too would be taxable.

I am annoyed there's no detail yet so can't start any planning until there is.

If this is replacing childcare vouchers, is per family rather than per parent, and only for children under five, then it looks like a pretty serious cut for a lot of us, not a "new tax break".

So if this measure was as well as vouchers it would be a great idea - people like me who are self-employed would benefit in the same way as people who are employed by companies that offer vouchers. But because it's instead of vouchers it sets up this whole argument. Why is the coalition government quite so rubbish?

When you add up before school club, after school club and the hugely expensive holiday clubs, then it isn't that much cheaper to fund childcare for school age children. That's why so many families juggle at least one end, ie drop off or pick up between them. I cannot believe they are imposing yet another cut on working families and passing it as a benefit. Words fail me!

For 2 parents both claiming vouchers it costs them £1866 though... I suspect this is why you will only be able to claim for preschoolers... It is completely to counteract people like me and my DH (who earn a combined income of greater than 50k) who argue that losing child benefit is a hardship when you are paying more than 800 a month in nursery fees.
Totally agree overall we'll all lose out as after school clubs so expensive.

TBH the more I think about it the more politically devious this all is!

Having thought about it.... Surely there's not a chance the govt can offer us £2000 of our tax bills. That has to cost them too much money.

Interested to see detailed versions of this proposal - like a lot of people I'd like to see more affordable childcare in general. I think my childminder is amazing, she has kids of her own, she is qualified in phonics and creating a learning environment for kids, she cooks my DS great meals and he's very relaxed and happy there so I don't begrudge paying her £4.50 an hour. Next year when I have two DCs though I'll be paying £8 an hour in childcare and like a lot of people I get no tax credits any more since they raised the threshold.

Me and DH, even with decent(ish) jobs, do really struggle with mortgage (on a house in negative equity), living expenses, childcare, petrol costs month to month, and even though we rarely go out, don't holiday abroad and spend hardly anything on ourselves we have absolutely no savings. It's a nerve wracking way to live and it would be nice to see a government proposal that genuinely rewards parents who work and have to juggle their lives around that - which is not in any way to say that SAHMs should be penalised for staying at home, just that medium income families could do with a bit of support instead of constantly running like hamsters on treadmills trying to keep everything going, paying our rates/national insurance/taxes and getting little in return.