New childcare tax break to be announced by the Government today - what do you think?

I agree Tincletoes, just have to wait it out.

But if it is £2k per child, then we would slightly out of pocket...if there is nothing at all and everything for the over 5s is canned, we are significantly out of pocket coupled with CB loss.

Unless it was 2k off your tax bill glitter, in which case it would be much better

TBH it is impossible to comment until they release the detail.

ceeveebee - I can't see how they could limit it to only childminders and nurseries... I would suspect it would be like Childcare Vouchers: for all registered providers. However they could decide to drop the registration of nannies (in England) and nanny agencies (in Scotland), so maybe they could limit it.

Details have not been published, so until they are we won't know.

If only one of us could claim, and that being the max of £2k, that would leave us quite out of pocket compared to our joint current sacrifice of £4.4k pa

The current system of vouchers I find very clumbersome. I have to guess how much I'll end up paying in childcare (which varies) and then claim it, and then print of vouchers each month to pass to the after school club. Some holiday clubs take them and some don't. And lots of parents work for employers who don't offer them. I used to claim tax credits instead so didn't get the vouchers - meaning that they mainly subsidise the better off, as lower income households claim tax credits instead.

The government needs to simplify the system to make it simpler to pay for childcare, or just subsidise the suppliers of childcare to make it cheaper.

This proposal only seems to be for funding for childminders and nurseries - what about nannies?
I have a nanny for my twins for various reasons, one being that neither DH or I could actually do our jobs if we had to work around inflexible opening hours, but also because its more if less the same cost as two nursery places. Looks like we won't get any assistance towards this. Having just lost child benefit in full as well - it's been an expensive start to the year so far.

Thank you so much, Tincle :)

Well jolly the tax and NIC you save on that £160 is 32% of that I think (ie 20% tax, 12% NIC). So that makes it £51 per month of tax and NIC you save, or £614 per year.

Under this new scheme it depends are they going to take the £2000 from your taxable income (like they do now), or are they going to take it from your tax bill. As a lower rate earner, the tax / NIC on £2000 would be £640 so for you the effect would be marginal they are reducing taxable pay by £2000. On the other hand, if they reduce tax bills by £2000, you'll be better off.

And it looks like only one partner could claim... so to be honest I think it'll work out pretty much exactly what the current scheme does if both partners claim vouchers.

Vouchers are not availbale to the self employed like I am.
Full time daily nanny in London for 3 children under is going to cost you not much less than £30k so about £50k of before tax income if you include employer NI, employee NI and tax for the nanny so if they allow £30k against your tax at the highest rate that might help. However they aer going to allow a sum which bears no relationship to London costs again as they want London to subsidise the idle regions as ever and tax people in London in effect to the hilt. £2k a year is a joke. I would rather have very very low flat taxes and a much much smaller state. Roll on Russia - we can see why the French are going there - 13% tax.

With the childcare voucher scheme... Which I thought was pretty straightforward I have £160 taken off my monthly wages to create vouchers. This pays for DS's nursery (he only goes one day a week).

So basically this will have no effect on me as I already get his full childcare costs tax free.

Am I right?

^ per child that is!

When DC were under 5, it cost me £30 per (full) day for a CM (Which i know is cheap!)

Now they are at school it costs me £18 per day for before and after school (and i still have to finish at 4.15 to pick up in time).

So, although cheaper, i have to finish earlier as hours are more restrictive. I cannot see why on earth they think the benefit should only be to age 5. I think Govt think normal school hours allow parents to work 40hrs a week for 48 weeks a year

I want all of my childcare costs (some £2000 per month) to be taken out of my income before I am taxed, and I don't want my pension contribution to be affected as they are with the current voucher scheme. If this was implemented, we would find a lot more nannies being paid on the books.

^^ this
Childcare is a cost of going to work and should be tax deductible.

They will continue feeling that they have to make that choice when it is continued as being referred to as women's choice or issue. It's a bit of a chicken and egg thing - it is that way for many as it is still thought and talked about that way for many, so it selfperpetuates.

I'm not against women being invited to discuss this too (and am generally in favour of mixed panels), at all, I'm just thinking the less childcare is called a women's issue the more likely it is to become an issue affecting both sexes in people's heads.

That said - I haven't listened to PM today so don't know whether the men discussing it have referred to it as a women's issue or not.

Strix
I do not look down upon sahps. Quite tge conteary. It must be nice to be able to afford such luxuries. I do however object to having to work long hours and rarely see my own children so that i can contribute to you childcare costs.

If that's not patronising I don't know what is. Everyone who pays tax funds services they may not ever benefit from. I am happy to pay tax to fund childcare for children whose parents may not otherwise be able to afford to give them that experience.

I think if you are so angry about missing your children, working long hours and (gasp) paying tax you'd better reconsider your lifestyle and give up work. Your choices are your responsibility.

I agree completley WidowWadman it should be both partners making the choices... it doesn't change the hard facts though that like it or not it is still primarily women that this will affect and it is women that are generally the ones that feel they have to make that choice, and yet most of the mainstream news have chosen to have it discussed only by men. Why not a mixture of male and female voices?

My point and your point are really two separate issues regarding the same common cause.

Strix well stay at home with them then,it's your choice as it should be.

When you become a sahp you ruin you ruin your career,have no pension,have years of tight budgeting,it's often boring and it's mighty difficult to get back into work.Some of us have no choice but to be a sahp and some choose to.Most mums that do it do it for their dc not because they particularly enjoy sitting at home unstimulated,broke and run ragged at times.It's hardly a rose garden 24/7. Yes it's great at times but so is working and having a career.

Lately sahp seem to be depicted as spoilt,rich yummy mummies with little to do but frittering money on coffee and manicures.

Mums and dads should all be supported in their choices (which we all do for the good of our dc )whatever they are not penalised or criticised because of some idealised picture and subsequent jealousy.

"Where are all the female voices in the popular media discussing something that will primarily impact on women and the choices women have to make regarding work and childcare. grrr "

Why is it women who have to make choices in your opinion? A father chooses as much as a mother whether to continue working or not.

It's a good thing when they get away from framing it as a "affecting women" instead of "affecting families" issue.

Excellent point hatgirl.

If this has an under 5s cut off I will actually lose the will - all that's been keeping me going on with entire salary going on childcare is the thought that it will get better when kids start school. Agree this is actually going to put lots of mums off returning to work after 5 years.

Only thing I can think in relation to being 'worse off' than vouchers - if we were savvy, could we not claim the £2k back, put it in an account & - with great discipline- split it into 4 chunks of £500 (so not much less than the current amount 'saved' with vouchers) and pay ourselves installments each month to spread it. So tax break from age 2-5 could be claimed, accumulated & used to spread across age 3-14 (or 3-11 if you wanted a tiny bit more each month). Faffy system though.

It was sad to realise that the Telegraph article (linked in the OP), Guardian article, Independent Article, Daily Mail article are all written by men, Radio 4s PM programme had three men and a male MP discussing it. Where are all the female voices in the popular media discussing something that will primarily impact on women and the choices women have to make regarding work and childcare. grrr

Hmmm... Some of these posts seem a bot patronising, and also seem to be arguing points I did not make.

I do not look down upon sahps. Quite tge conteary. It must be nice to be able to afford such luxuries. I do however object to having to work long hours and rarely see my own children so that i can contribute to you childcare costs. Do you really think that is fair? What makes your children more worthy of your presence than mine are of my presence.

Where do you think the government gets their money, if not from other parents who would also like to be home with their children?

Can anyone tell me where it says that this childcare vouchers 'alternative' would not be able to be used with childminders for children above 5? Both DH and I take the full 243 alllowed per month. As of this sept when DD2 goes to school we would still need the vouchers to cover holiday childcare.

The feeling seems to be that this would no longer be allowed?

Olgaga
I would like to see subsidised childcare, or at least see it looked more closely at. I don't know the numbers, or how it is paid for but in Germany Kindergartens for age 3 to 6 years are subsidised, and these are being extended to under 3yo DC too.

We paid about EU 300 a month for 2 children in full time childcare, in an excellent setting with well trained teachers. And that was the top of the scale. Families with lower income pay less, or even nothing at all.

Why does it work in Germany, but not here? They don't have any complicated voucher schemes - childcare is cheap, and they receive about double our child benefit.