Do we send too many women to prison?

I do think we send too many women to prison for non-violent offences. What I find the most wrong, is when a TV licence has not been paid for whatever reason, and a woman answers the door to the police who arrest her. She is then prosecuted and could be sent to prison, for something that could be beyond her control. Her partner may have been responsible for paying it, but they haven't. Because she is at home when they knock on her door, she is the one liable. Now, I know TV licences need to be payed but there needs to be another way to deal with it to make it fairer. This is the extreme case, but it does happen. The Government need to assess they are using the same case precedent for men, women and youths, and not just making an example of certain groups.

Community sentences and restorative justice have been proven to work, but the funding has been stopped or greatly reduced in most local authorities. I know a lot of people who don't like it and are quite angry when they see the people in orange vests. But anything to do with criminals is going to be controversial. Other countries can show us how it is beneficial and works; people need to be 'repaired' and not punished.

The needs of children should be paramount. No child should be put into care because of their parent's behavior. The care system is already struggling. And what happens when they come out and there is no home because they couldn't keep up with rent/mortgage repayments? Community sentencing would allow punishing the person, without putting a child at risk.

People do need to be sent to prison for non-violent offences because it is a slippery slope. But for shorter sentences, and place prisoners in prisons closer to home, so that they can regularly see family and friends. More women's prisons are needed. I live in Wales and there is not a single one here, which is ridiculous.

This cannot be a gender issue though, it needs to be an issue for the entire justice system. Less people should go to prison, with community sentences being used more. The cut to legal aid needs to be stopped, since everyone should have the right to a fair trial. Thousands of people will not be able to have legal representation because they do not fit the criteria, but still do not earn enough.

The medical wings and drug/alcohol/suicide watch wings in prisons need to be re-opened. The medical wing in Cardiff prison has been reduced, and there are no drug/alcohol wings anymore. It seems the Conservative/Liberal Government have given up on trying to rehabilitate offenders back into the community.

I wanted to say more but I forgot. If I remember, I'll add it. I like community sentencing I think I may have been brainwashed by the lecturer! (I study criminology believe it or not)

Yes, we do send too many women to prison.

We send too many young people into custody.

We sent too many men to prison.

We send especially too many women to prison for too long, for offences that are to do with debt and being victims. And they fare very badly on the sentence scale when compared with men. And even with the relatively longer sentences, they tend to get worse education / rehabilitation whilst inside, because the system is geared up towards the much larger male prison population overall.

And all prisoners are much, much more likely than the average non-prisoner to be mentally till, and/or to have been a victim of abuse, and/or to have learning difficulties.

Just read an article on this in Telegraph. Apparently only 5% of the prison population are women, and that most of them are convicted non-violent crimes.

I seem to remember reading many articles a few years back that said up to 88% of women in prison had a mental illness. I was very shocked at this as it was much higher than the men's rate (which I forget now). I think from that I would be more comfortable thinking these women were receiving medical help, rather than just being tucked out of sight/out of mind.

The main point the govt prob want to avoid is the fact they are spending 50k + pa on these women, who could prob be getting more beneficial and long term medical help to stop them re-offending and thus wasting money that is much needed in other areas of our society.

Yes too many women are sent to prison. Most of the women in prison have mental health issues as well and drug and/or alcohol problems. they need treatment not prison.

The same however goes for a lot of male prisoners.

There was an interesting set of articles about this in the Independent week commencing 17th Sept, particularly with regard to mothers. I haven't re-read all of them tonight, but I will do.

There ar fewer women's prisons so women are on average placed further from home than men making it hard to maintain contact with families.

If they are pregnant or have a newborn, they may get a (scarce) place in a mother and baby unit but in order to get the place they may end up even further from home and older children.

Many children of women prisoners do not have other family members willing and able to care for them during the prison sentence, whereas most children of male prisoners stay with their mothers.

Women prisoners are less likely to have prison visitors due to lack of husband/partner and greater distance from home.

Sentencing takes no account whatsoever of dependent children

Add all these to the statistics saying that women are more likely than men to receive custodial sentences for minor offences then i do think the system needs reform.

madeinwales, you say "many of the women I have worked with during the last 10 years have been failed by education system, social services and mental health services. The women I know are often victims themselves abused and neglected from the day they were born; frequently they have low confidence and self esteem. They make poor choices in managing their money, relationships and get into trouble."

Surely they then go on to raise children with the same problems? So how does it help the next generation to be left with a mother who can't provide a reasonable upbringing? Genuine question, since the argument seems to be that they can't be imprisoned because of their children.

Excellent post BelleDame

Mm

Women are more often jailed, and for longer terms, than men are for similar offences. This does make it a gender issue.

The information below is from www.womeninprison.org.uk/statistics.php which makes interesting reading:

*In the 12 months to June 2011 80% of women entering custody under sentence had committed a non-violent offence, compared with 70% of men.
Women serve shorter prison sentences than men and for less serious offences. In the 12 months ending June 2011, 59% of women entering prison under sentence serve sentences of up to and including six months, compared with 48% of men. Theft and handling was by far the most common offence, accounting for 34% of sentenced receptions.
*28% of women in prison had no previous convictions ? more than double the figure for men (13%).
*13% of women serving sentences of under 12months had no previous convictions, compared with only 8% of men.

I want to know why the incarceration rates for women with no previous convictions is so much higher for women then men. It seems to me that women are still judged more harshly then men.

A vagina is not a get out of jail free card.

Nor should it ever be.

I don't understand why it's a gender issue.

Shouldn't the study be about people in prison?

Women who go to prison get seperated from their children. But so do men!

I understood that men's prisons were more overcrowded than women's, so women are more likely to go to prison than men are for similar crimes. is that correct does anyone know?

It definitely shouldn't be a gender issue. If they have committed the crime, they have to face the consequences. Male or female. I'm sure there are plenty of men that are the only parent to their children, that also get sent to prison.

fewer women are sent to prison than men, and yes that's when you break it down to look at type of crime. I don't have time to find the statistics but it's not hard to do so. So it is a gender issue but one where women already get preferential treatment.

Prisons do try to reform prisoners so in prison you can chose to improve your education. You may also get help with drugs. Babies born in prison are allowed to stay with the mother untill it's in their best interest to be in a more stimulating environment.

Quite a few of the women in prison are not British and are there for being drug mules who got caught. They need a different sort of help.

If you want to make this a site issue do some more research.

Exactly what Lougle said. I hate being asked for a black or white verdict on something when the necessary information is not available in order for me to have a properly informed opinion.

Jane; am I right to think that while "most women in custody are serving short sentences for non violent crimes and many have themselves been victims of serious crime and sustained abuse" we might also write
"most men in custody are serving short..................you get my drift??

Pity I won't be able to listen or attend the lecture this evening - I was moved to tears listening to Juliet Lyons at the Soroptimist Study Day earlier this year www.soroptimist-ukpac.org. Most women in custody are serving short sentences for non-violent crimes and many have themselves been victims of serious crime and sustained abuse. One community solution is through women's centres that enable women to address the cause of their offending and keep them out of trouble while maintaining care of their children. It requires a joined-up approach to tackle the complex factors contributing to the disproportionate number of women imprisoned for offences and the damage this inflicts on their children (18,000 children affected in the UK each year).

I don't think it is a gender issue. The punishment should fit the crime, be it a man or a woman.

Not enough people in the UK go to prison when they should. It doesn't matter about whether they are man or woman.

Isn't the gender issue something that we've been "fighting" for for years? Need to take the crunchy with the smooth don't we.

I work with women who are released from prison and find your talkboard very interesting. There but for the grace of God go all of us.... many of the women I have worked with during the last 10 years have been failed by education system, social services and mental health services. The women I know are often victims themselves abused and neglected from the day they were born; frequently they have low confidence and self esteem. They make poor choices in managing their money, relationships and get into trouble. I agree that better help with drugs and alcohol would prevent more women going to prison. Locking up a woman for arson when she has set fire to herself isnt in anyones interests.. locking up someone who hasnt paid for her TV licence isnt going to help her or her family. If you are interested read the Prison Reform website. visit UNLOCK website or Howard League for Penal reform and advocate not locking up women who will be better served with community punishments rather than separating her from her family more than 50miles away; so she loses her home and her children.. in fact everything... Then we all pay the price. Did you know that One in FOUR people in the UK has a criminal record for something other than a driving offence?;ask the question why did so many suitable potential commissioners have to resign for minor offences they committed when they were children. Simon Western for example... a Faulklands veteran and all round hero was forced to stand down because he was a passenger a stolen car as a teenager... lets stop being hypocrites and look at our MPs who fiddle expenses and dont learn their greedy lessons compared with women who steal because she has been released from HMP Holloway with a TENT instead of somewhere to live.

Yes, legalising use of drugs is going to help. Tell that to the kids of junkies who will then be able to legally get fucked off their face. That will just make it easier on the drug user and harder on the family.

Hi, I agree with a lot of what's gone before today in this discussion, mainly around the arguments that any male or female offender who is a danger to others should be locked away. And I fully believe we all have a choice in deciding how we behave and not everyone has an abusive, unprotected, basically crap childhood and goes on to offend. And perhaps even some of those that do knowing exactly what they're doing and the consequences and the risks involved but go ahead anyway. However, women usually carry out far less serious crimes than men and have still been imprisoned, and whatever the moral arguemtns, it costs a lot of money (that we don't have going spare) to lock someone up! Also, society and the judicial system has in the past, viewed women offenders as more morally repugnant than men: same views tend to apply to women alcoholics or drug users. If a man is imprisoned often the women in his life will look after his children whilst he's bring them to visit: when a woman is imprisoned her children are more likely to go into care and there is often no one to bring her children to see her. We might say, "tough, she made a choice and has to live with it" however, the children didn't make the choice so why should they be punished further? In some countries, if the mother is in an open prison there may be ways for her to be made more responsible for her children whilst serving her sentence - there are examples of women having to go out and take their children to and from school, and then go back to prison at night. Perhaps keeping such contact going would hopefully remind a mother what she's missing and that there is something to motivate her not to reoffend?