Madmouse's open letter to MNHQ about the treatment of those with disabilities on MN

MNHQ may not be back on here for a while.They are often short staffed at the weekend .

madmouse,if you get no joy from MNHQ,you could report them to a newspaper.

Or threaten to sue them for discrimination.

Justines newspaper of choice seems to be the Guardian.I am no expert in newspapers.I would suggest that you pick a newspaper that is opposite to the Guardian,whichever one that is.

I think you are right - often people don't realise what they are saying is offensive and it can get out of hand very quickly. Wether they are intentionally in sulting or not, I don't think it should be left up to SN members to constantly need to educate on this but that MN should do something practical about it. After all enough is enough for these members. It is often for those who are offended the straw that broke the camel's back and responses can become very heated, how could you not be angry when it is the 100th time you have had the same conversation or corrected someone for a derogatory usage of a word or phrase - wether insult was intended or not. It often leads to defensiveness from the person who has said the wrong thing and it all gets gets out of hand. If MN wants to support thier members they need to find a way of doing so that is a little more pro active - but does not leave the ignorant basking in thier ignorance.

Definately no disabled person should be grilled on the nature of thier disability. Like you say it is bad enough having to cope with prying in rl.

Maybe people don't realise they are being Disablist, they genuinely mean no harm, what they say does cause harm or offence, so it is Disablist. Ripping the Piss out of spelling, when someone said they are disabled in an op for example. Demanding to know someone's medical history is Disablist is another example, disabled people deserve privacy and dignity and should not be made to explain to every tom Dick and harry. It is hard enough to forget about it and try and lead a normal as possible life without the indignity in rl on online to give your medical history, to state you have a disability should be enough.

I understand your frustrations ladies. But there are many uninfomred people out there. Deleting comments which are disablist, inflamatory, rude etc is good. But here is another analogy here. People get images deleted off Facebook, with no explaination why. So what happens? Generally they make a big fuss about it and why was it deleted and it gets much more attention than it was due. And there may well have been a good reason within guidelines for it's removal. Explaining why - even with a simple link gives some form of answer and hopefully stops some of the song and dancing and stuff which offends. An FAQ could develop over time as an organic thing as and when new things present. But it could be useful and something MN perhaps consults with groups affected with to draw up some good factual based info on some of these issues which so often upset those affected / insulted. Often in the heat of a thread it is hard to properly articulate in one place the truth of the matter without the red mist descending.

If MN towers had an FAQ section for these type of things which come up again and again, particularly those regarding discrimination which have a footing in law, clarifying the legal rights and wrongs of such a thing (e.g. Use of a Wheelchair User space on a bus) and suggestion of how as a Buggy user such a space may be utilised in the absence of a wheelchair user and what to do when one presents themselves and you are in situ.) then people could be pointed to that - and then you hard battling SN members need not feel constantly called upon to fight the fight in quite the same way.

Clarification of lots of things could be listed in an MN FAQ section, things like the use of the word wheelchair to specify someone who is a wheelchair user - not a rolling piece of metal which offers freedom to a person who uses it - could be addressed, and again - posts whihc use that or other disablist, racist etc comments could be deleted with a link to the relevant FAQ answer.

People are not going to stop asking these questions, because this is a forum for parents, and some of them are coming up against issues and events which are new to our fields of experience and inevitably that leads to questions and the need for answers. Simply because someone is uneducated does not mean they are evil or trying to be so. It means they need to learn why they are wrong. And often like the lady on the "should I have folded my buggy and got off the bus" thread they are making an attempt to understand what the right thing should have been. The whole thing turned into a huge bunfight - and someone when feeling under attack is bound to want to to justify why they did what they did - and then it offends so many people with folk taking sides and sympathising with different camps etc. Really if the lady had been given a succinct piece of information which told her YABU, this is how the law stands on the matter, here is how you should and could have acted in that circumstance and the thread closed that would be that.

It might over time make it easier for MN towers to manage and balance the need to support members who feel discriminated against as well as educating those who might genuinely want to be educated without making either party feel sidelined, dissaffected or insulted.

Really sorry to have waffled.

and now I will probably have caused huge offence here too, but it shouldn't be like that, you should be able to air your opposing view on such things.

it is hard having to deal with a disability. But I find the majority of society to be kind and decent, and its not healthy or good for one's mental state to go around thinking that everyone is out to get you and disablist

i personally have a child with a disability. And while I see that some people have offensive views, which are usually shouted down by the majority, I do totally agree with Custy.

Often it feels like you cannot disagree with some people on certain subjects without being put through the guilt trip from hell and being called disablist.

I think it is very hard to walk in anothers shoes. It is hard for people to grasp brains can be damaged in specific areas, that same brain damaged person can function better than average in other parts of the brain.

Someone may look average, they may have physical and mobility issues.

I once lost my voice, people spoke to me in loud voices as though I was deaf, we all may have had temporary issues a broken limb, flu, migrane, etc to have an idea what its like for our body not function at 100%, during those times people get a window in.

Of course they haven't, Amillionyears, they never do!

I don't know either I don't think the original poster was being bigoted just inconsiderate but it is difficult to work out what is deemed disablist on MN

I am well educated and swearing aside, i actually have a great concept of the English language. I Have been on more E&D courses than you can shake a stick at. I have to consider the needs of the disabled daily in my role at work.

Yet i do not know what defines disablist on mumsnet as opposed to an opinion which states something different

I have just realised that at no point has MN,and I would hope that it is actually Justine,has come on this thread and said to madmouse and others,that MNHQ,will in future treat people with disabilites equally with others.
And also to apologise for appearing not to have done so in the past.

madmouse,you could ask for what wording you would like,as I may have not got the above worded quite correctly.

In a response from HelenMumsnet to Glitterknickaz at 11.25 am yesterday,Helens response is actually defensive and almost attacking on this matter.

I do think suggesting abled bodied mothers and disabled people have the same problem, is well wrong, you can not compare the 2 .

CustardoCustardoCustardo Fri 22-Jun-12 17:08:23
MN has no go areas. disabilities and feminism are but two. if you don't agree you don't have a voice and a reasoned discussion cannot be had.
I can't say about feminism, but disagree about disability. there is a difference between disagreeing and being disablist.
the unfortunate thing is a lot of people disagree and then use disablist language.
not all of course.

I'd love a job at MNHQ but sadly I'm just someone who through many years of advocacy in various areas of life know that objectivity is the only way to get an argument across. Sometimes I find Mumsnet very strange - are there really people who think living with a man is wrong? Well, it seems so but it puzzles me. I've been a regular on MN for years, usually to be found in Style and Beauty or the Doghouse.

we all need to be free to say what we think,except in very exceptional circumstances"

Perhaps, but this is a moderated site where there is a policy about the kinds of posts that will be allowed and the kind that will be deleted. This whole debate is about whether the policy regarding posts about disability and people with disabilities is pitched right. So a blanket 'freedom of speech' response is not really an answer.

I have been surprised in the past about what has been left up. I note that MNHQ was very quick to delete posts on the FWR trans threads in a way that contrasted markedly with the way they deal with disability threads. I was surprised. People with disabilites are just as in need of protection from hostility and discrimination as transgender people.

HiggleMNHQ. It has a ring to it.

anti what?

There's that classic phrase "logic is the way forward"

re your 17.06 pm thread

higgle, do you think everyone who disagrees with you is 'over emotional'? Or just women with experience of disability?

higgle,you work for MNHQ dont you?
Guessing,but your last 7 words look like it to me.

It is not up to bus companies to fix patterns of thought.

I actually work with older people who have disabilities, so I am aware of the problems, and I sit on a board that represents the care sector including PD and LD sectors. I just don't think getting over emotional helps. Logic is the way forward - and a desire to win the "antis" round, not further alienate them.