Madmouse's open letter to MNHQ about the treatment of those with disabilities on MN

I am off to sleep. I hope that a solution is found.

so you were inferring i had better morals than you?

They aren't a minority though sharklet.
Really they aren't.
And most of the time I can let it go.
But then every once in a while someone posts something so moronic about disability and prefaces their post with the statement that it is a"genuine question" as opposed to a question I would be ashamed of my 9year old asking and then others posters pile on and defend said person and then despite the thread being reported by many MNHQ decides to let the comments stand...comments that I and many like me think are unacceptable it is a "perfect storm" of crapness that makes members of the sn/sen boards feel (more) marginalised and separate and alone.
Does that answer your question?
Other than MNHQ actually abiding by the talk guidelines I don't know what else to suggest.....

Badvoc, there are people on this forum from all walks of life, all levels of education and from completely different cultural backgrounds. Of course it is depressing that they need to ask questions, but hell at least they are asking them! Rather than just bumbling along and not even bothering to question thier actions, remaining bigoted and selfish and never considering others. The OP in that bus post was wrong, really wrong, but now she knows that. At least she did bother to ask for clarification by putting the question in the first place, and received it. She returned, albeit on a new thread as the other was full, to say she had considered and taken to heart the responses and in the future would behave differently. All the rest was just a massive bunfight of unnecessary name calling and unpleasantness. There are lots of issues people are not clear on in this world. Which are massively important to others, and rightly so, as it has been so rightly put people campaigned for years to get this facility, it should not be misused. But, surely by not even allowing people to ask the questions, and demanding such threads are automatically deleted without clarification you are making this an eternal circle of hell. If people are wrong they need to learn how to be right.

Yes the OP in that post was wrong in doing what she did. But she and others learned from it because she bothered to ask. The kind of people who are the worst are the ones who don't examine the situation, the ones who don't ask the questions and don't try to live reflectively. All of us have done something where we have not been sure of the rights and wrongs of a situation - whatever it is, and have then learned from mistakes. It does not make us evil or bigots, simply uneducated. As parents we guide our kids every day through what is right and wrong. We learn throughout life as our experiences dictate.

I'm not saying you or anyone else who is disabled or a parent or carer of disabled child should have to answer all of this, but that MNHQ should step up in some way and deal with it. Possibly an FAQ as I mentioned before or some other way - does anyone have a practical solution?

I don't thing just deleting genuine questions from people at least making an effort to learn if they were wrong or find out what was right will help at all. It will just leave people confused and make them ask the questions even more because they won't understand why the threads or questions were deleted. We are not born with innate knowledge about these issues. This is learned knowledge and learned behaviour. There are good people out there who genuinely want to learn what the right thing is to do, if you are always angry with them for not knowing in the first place how will any ground ever be gained? I know there are trolls who flame but they are in the minority. What I am trying to say is can you not allow people to become better people?

...or are you SO well educated that you can read minds?....

Did I say shitty?
No.
I said different.
Don't put words in my mouth.

yup thats it exactly, my morals are so shitty i come on a thread and call other peoples morals shitty

The very fact that an adult asks the question on the original post is so fucking depressing as to beggar belief.
It is - at it's most basic level - a moral question.
An able bodied person should give up their seat for a disabled person.
And no! I don't think having young children is a disability!
Perhaps very well educated people (like custardo)have different morals to the rest of us plebs?
Perhaps that's it?
Jeez....

2shoes,I have gone to the Nobdies for now.Tis nice and calm in there.

I agree with Fanjo, Custardo and NorthernLurker.

They have expressed most eloquently what I have failed to.

Hopefully as they are known and respected others will listen.

ignore I have promised myself I will not let this stuff get to me now, if I can ever think of a new name I will go and hide under that.

When were you told to suck it up?

there have been 4 threads, 4 threads full of this shit.
makes me as the parent of a child who will always be in a wheelchair fell wonderful to see this shit.
but we can't say anything if we do we are told basically to suck it up by mn hq.

Come on - she posted asking a question, a flaming ensued, she went away, thought about it and came back with considered comments - in which she said she would act differently next time - and she still got hammered. Can we really be surprised she didn't stay on the threads? It's not really on to designate anything we don't agree with as 'designed to inflame'. The reaction to the bus threads shows that a lot of people do not understand the complexity of the needs that wheelchair users have. Some people do not get that a wheelchair user may be stuck at a bus stop indefinately if able bodied people don't get off their arses and make changes. Those people absolutely need to understand that. Understanding those wider needs and principles does not mean that you must ignore the nuance of a situation. Nor does it mean you must endlessly lambast people who make mistakes or who were not as well informed as they should be. I don't believe there was any need for the first thread to get to 1000 posts. This argument has run away with itself. God knows I understand the dog with a bone feeling. I've done it myself plenty of times - you keep hammering on but it's counter productive. Shedloads of energy goes in and all that comes out are deeper holes for us to sit in.

it would also be good if mn didn't support threads that are started to inflame and then the op does a bunk.
then comes back starts another and then does a bunk.

It wasn't long ago a lot of groups had to educate and get respect, I have hope the situation will improve for those with needs too.

I think the idea mentioned earlier with links to an explaination, sounds like a good idea. To close a thread would not be required, posters would adapt.

Caters and those with disabilitys would I am sure give input to help mn get something sensible together.

It's not a question of opinions and points of view.

"Wheelchair users have priority over all other passengers" - TFL - is an absolute.

When someone starts a thread querying that absolute, she is undermining the principle and undoing years of activism. Can you not see that this might make quite a lot of people justifiably angry?

Mnet HQ's position is that people can put the OP right and the thread is therefore educational. However, I am afraid that what people might have learned from the thread is that they are not alone in thinking that the principle does not apply to them, because of their particular circumstances, and therefore they have no need to obey the signs. Especially, as it now emerges, not all bus companies will enforce the disability legislation.

So the end result of these threads may well be disablist, in that it makes the position of disabled people worse than before.

ASillyPhase, I do see that it's hard for people with no experience of something to speak with any real authority on it. One would assume that they would then be listen to those who more than enough experience of that thing. Ask questions, sure, but to just go on thinking up more and more scenarios which come down to the same question, is pointless, and in the case of those threads was definitely goading.

proving the point there somewhat, amillion

Here they come.

I agree with Fanjo and Custardo. The recent threads have really bothered me because there is an absolutism about the 'acceptable' opinions which doesn't seem to allow anybody to make an individual choice or have an individual case by case view. Then the debate has moved on to this larger one with a group of posters claiming what amounts to persecution - and yet on all the 'bus' threads the same posters were themselves ignoring apologies, making accusations of trolling and goading and talking about making lists of those who expressed any other view.
I think this has all got way out of hand and mnet HQ is being unfairly accused of prejudice.

Yes thats what I said earlier. Link to FAQ clarification - thread closed. End of.That way not fostering a space for the red mist and dredging it all up.

It's hard if people have no disability experience for them to get how hard life is in rl. The struggle for things like at present I am on a pre op diet. I have to read the food list every time I eat incase I forget, I will remember, I just can't remember when I need to if that makes sence. I have to write each thing I eat as I eat it. That is one example. Life is hard, you want lightness and joy as much as you can get of it when ever you can.

I do think people need education, like they did with other discrimination issues, how what is not meant with harm, can cause harm.

Sharklet, something similar has been suggested on another thread, also that the thread should have a link posted to the relevant page and blocked off - ie no more posts.

What do people think about that?