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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Original poster

Madmouse's open letter to MNHQ about the treatment of those with disabilities on MN

555 replies

madmouse · 20/06/2012 19:05

Dear MNHQ

I joined MN when I was pregnant with my lovely ds. That heady autumn with bump before such words as NICU, neonatal seizures, brain damage, cerebral palsy, speech delay, special school entered my vocabulary.

That was 5 whole years ago - and all that time MN has been a part of my life. Got a lot of support from my ante- and postnatal buddies and from experienced SN mums. Gave back where I could. Became ill with PTSD, found the MH threads, recovered, started to give support on the MH threads.

Now I've come to the point that the only thing stopping me from leaving MN is that I would let down people on the MH threads. Other than that your (MNHQ) behaviour today has been an eye opener and a bit of a final straw.

MN has become, like RL, a place where disabled people and people with disabled children are not safe, not treated equally and not extended the same courtesy and respect as those without disabilities.

What happened today is just a tip of the ice berg. Day in day out threads appear with the same old theme. AIBU to use this disabled space because my baby's maxi cosy is too big and the P&T spaces are full, AIBU to use the wheelchair space on the bus (those two appear weekly by and large), AIBU to think it's nice to be disabled because you get lots of benefits, AIBU to think disabled people have it easy, AIBU to think I should have a free car too seeing as that I pay taxes.

It goes on and on and on. And none of it is ever challenged other than by a small group of us who do all this fighting in RL too - because it affects us and our children.

There is such thing as discrimination. And you do have a duty to stamp it out. Hand off moderation is no excuse certainly seeing how quick you were to delete 2shoes thread when some of us started fighting back against the endless threads of threads which in turn are copies of last week's threads.

I am very disappointed. And I think you have some thinking to do.

Best wishes

OP posts:
MNHQ
HelenMumsnet · 21/06/2012 10:30

Morning, folks. Thanks for your patience. We'll do our best to answer your latest Qs now.

To start with, though, just to recap for those who haven't read all the thread...

  • We do not tolerate clearly disablist posts on Mumsnet - and will delete them, as soon as we are made aware of them, with no debate, discussion or mitigating pleas.

  • We may not, though, delete a post that forms part of a reasonable and valid discussion, if we believe that post was made in genuine and honest ignorance. Instead, we may decide it's best to let it stand and allow others to voice their own, more enlightened, views. However, if the original 'ignorant' poster persists with the same sort of posts after that - ie when they can't possibly be ignorant any more - we would look into deleting/mailing/warning/banning, as appropriate.

  • We've always thought it's wrong to adopt a policy of blanket censorship. We feel it's wiser to judge each post that's reported on its individual words and context, and make decisions on a post-by-post basis.

  • We agree that we were slow to act on the original two pushchair threads. Unfortunately staff sickness left us on the back foot but we should, at the very least, have posted on the threads to make our stance on disablist views clear.

  • The two deleted threads were deleted for different reasons. One because we felt it was deliberately inflammatory; the other (2shoes' one) because it was a thread about a thread. 2shoes: we're sorry you didn't get any satisfactory replies yesterday; I'll look into that today and mail you as soon as poss.

  • The current pushchair thread has not been deleted because, as we posted on the thread last night, we believe the OP, who's been an MNer for ages, started it in response to last night's Channel 4 news report and was entirely unaware of the other threads. And, at least the last time we checked, it was a valid discussion, with no disablist content. We have, however, posted on it to remind people that we don't tolerate disablist posts - and we will keep an eye on it today. Please do report to us any posts that concern you.

  • And finally, we couldn't refute more passionately any assumption that MN SNers don't matter to us. MNSN is undoubtedly one of the aspects of our MN Community of which we are the most proud. It's one of the things that makes coming into work every morning a truly uplifting experience even when you're mad at us. We may not get everything right all the time but the last thing any of us would dream of doing is make you feel you don't matter to us. If that's the impression any of you have got, we are really sorry.

dottyspotty2 · 21/06/2012 09:53

Maryz majority of the time I try to live and let live lifes to short and I don't like confrontation.

Maryz · 21/06/2012 09:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

thereonthestair · 21/06/2012 09:40

I just want to add my support to madmouse, 2shoes and others. I don't always agree with exactly what they post on all matters but they are always respectful if respect is earned. By sometimes we all need to fight, but we are all tired of fighting.

I will also declare an interest in that i do have a 2 year old with CP, who does not yet need a wheelchair, but who, like madmouse went through NICU. At the time I found mumsnet supprtive, as I did with an earlier miscarriage. I still find bits of SN supportive and occasionally dip in and out of other areas where I can offer support.

However one of the things I do in RL is advise on the Equality Act. And I do often think MN overstpes the boundaries and does allow too much to stand and if I had more fight in me maybe I would take up that fight. But at the moment I don't as I am too busy with dealing with (or fighting) the NHS and a day job.

For professional/legal reasons I don't do FB, and can't see I ever will so if MN does not wake up and see that some of what MN has evolved to be is a place of support, and allow us to support without fear I believe far more people like me may find themselves isolated and alone as the saftey has gone dealing with the crap that the rest of life throws at us, and we will leave. It is a sad reflection of society but a reflection of society nontheless.

dottyspotty2 · 21/06/2012 09:36

The me me me attitude really pisses me off I don't usually post on those threads much just put my views and leave but I'm getting tempted after reading some of the posts since I last looked.

Maryz · 21/06/2012 09:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
madmouse · 21/06/2012 09:30

Yes that seems to be the latest trend: Declaring that wheelchair users are all strong and healthy and just love to wait for the next bus so buggies don't have to be folded.

I am getting irate pissed off and furious about the way wheelchair users are more and more set apart as a category of people rather than as ordinary people who happen to be in a wheelchair.

If you were not disabled, how keen would you be to stand in the rain waiting for the next bus because some selfish mare would not fold her buggy?

OP posts:
amillionyears · 21/06/2012 09:23

MN also keep their staff numbers low to keep costs down.
So they are often hours behind where they should be.

Maryz · 21/06/2012 09:21

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

PurplePidjin · 21/06/2012 09:03

Ive also both discussed and hit the big red R button. We shall see...

Original poster
madmouse · 21/06/2012 08:57

2shoes I have just posted on the other thread and also reported it. I cannot believe that the other thread is allowed to stand certainly seeing what is being posted on it right now. I just don't understand what MN is up to now with this behaviour and I'm looking into taking things further.

OP posts:
2shoes · 21/06/2012 08:54

I have popped back in the hope that mn hq had sorted this, they havn't they have allowed the other thread to stand. so now mine was the only one deleted.
I have had no mail from mn hq even though i have contacted them
I am disgusted with how mn hq have dealt with this, and am of to rl and fb now.

PurplePidjin · 21/06/2012 07:37

I need valium and maltesers and codeine.

Am also pg so will stick with lemon squash Sad

ArthurPewty · 21/06/2012 07:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CelineMcBean · 20/06/2012 23:45

This pregnancy business is shit. But I don't hate myself enough to have hot Vimto. I do have Maltesers though Grin

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 20/06/2012 23:39

celine alas, valium should not be taken when pregnant.

Looks like hot vimto for you (boak)

Jux · 20/06/2012 23:39

I think that post is deliberately inflammatory. At this point I think it would be a good idea for Someone from HQ to admonish the perpetrator of that post (let's call her/him Sofa) on this thread - how about you do a little educating yourselves? - and possibly ban Sofa, at least temporarily, 3 months, say.

EXmrsmascarahead · 20/06/2012 23:37

ooh Valium can I have one pweeease?

ATM I am making sure I don't stand near any walls, hitting my head against them seems like too easy of an option!

CelineMcBean · 20/06/2012 23:36

Can I have Valium if I'm pregnant? I want one.

Maryz · 20/06/2012 23:35

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 20/06/2012 23:34

No, no, no, no, noooooo

Vimto is minging

Hot vimto must be even mingier (invents new word)

CelineMcBean · 20/06/2012 23:33

I don't know how to be any clearer. I'll have one more try.

A buggy is transport, like a car or a bike - a convenience but not a necessity for getting around. A wheelchair is a substitute for a physical characteristic that allows the user to replace walking and is the best way to bring equality with other people who are fortunate enough to be able to walk. If a baby is taken out of a wheelchair it suffers no ill effect. The parent may suffer a small inconvenience but the baby does not because they are designed to be carried. A wheelchair user does not use a chair for convenience, it is necessity and it cannot be parked up or folded but it can bring independence where others have independence. A baby is dependent regardless of method of carriage.

EXmrsmascarahead · 20/06/2012 23:30

I'm having a hot vimto and a roll up does anyone want one?

Glitterknickaz · 20/06/2012 23:29

Yes, and the THIRD FUCKING THREAD can stand apparently because it's about something else entirely!

That's nice isn't it?

RobinGoodfellow · 20/06/2012 23:26

Itsallgoingtobefine - don't think overthink this - the level of discrimination experienced means this isn't a level playing field when it comes to semantics. People are going to be hurt one way, never the other.

Everyone else - try not to bite itsallgoingtobefine's head off.