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See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Troll-hunting and subsequent Thread-ruining

338 replies

oneofsuesylvesterscheerios · 07/04/2012 16:42

Yes, in some ways this is a thread about a thread, although its actually an interesting general point too. Plus, I don't want to carry on the discussion on the actual thread as it would be too damaging and would take it off in a completely different direction.

So... If a poster broke the rules and shouted troll, and then they were chastised (rightly) and the post removed, unless the offending surrounding comments reacting to the troll-hunt are removed too, the damage has been done surely?

We assume when someone posts regarding a personal trauma that they are telling the truth (well I hope we do) and if we suspect anything, we surely just ignore these days: we know the MN guidelines, etc.

And we know that certain situations in life happen to a lot of people (bereavement, loss, break-ups, etc). So when someone goes through a horrible time, the beauty of MN is that we don't just get sympathy and unmumsnetty hugs; we get empathy from folk who have been there themselves. We also often get bloody good advice, practical and emotional.

A thread that contains an accusation of troll-hunting is blindingly obvious even when the offending poster's comments have been removed. And thus, the damage is done.

When my dad died last I had some fantastic support from mnetters who'd suffered the loss of a parent and knew how 'rootless' it can make you. I'd have been confused and beyond upset if anyone had questioned my grief online. It doesn't matter how many positive posters there are on thread; just one snarky comment and the wave of a pitchfork is enough to send the OP packing, at a time when they might need the 'anonymous' support of MN most.

So, what I'm asking MN Towers is: if troll-hunting is banned, and it's fully acknowledged how damaging this could be on a thread that offers support to lots of people, often not just the OP, shouldn't all references and posts regarding an accusation be completely removed so the thread can remain intact and totally focused on the thread subject? Otherwise, it seems pointless.

OP posts:
breadbiscuit · 08/04/2012 00:45

No, I think that if threads started by trolls were deleted very quickly, there would be no excuse for troll hunting on threads started by genuine posters.

And it would really help if MNHQ could come on - at any stage, although preferably sooner rather than later - and say "Actually this OP is/was genuine."

Also you would get far fewer trolls on the site, because there's nothing they like better than starting a troll hunt.

oneofsuesylvesterscheerios · 08/04/2012 00:38

So I guess the thread I originally saw might actually be one of the few genuines? They weren't activating any of the aforementioned troll klaxons (money / offers of personal RL help / distressing other posters with horrible details, etc).

And even if they weren't genuine, it was a good example of sensible advice-giving from other posters, none of whom were giving any more than words of sympathy/empathy and advice. And yet troll was screamed. And the thread immediately became something else entirely.

So what we're saying is that, due to the number of genuine weirdos who get their kicks from trolling, we have to remain ultimately cynical. Shame...

C'est la vie.

OP posts:
TheSecondComing · 08/04/2012 00:10

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MaryZ · 08/04/2012 00:07

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breadbiscuit · 08/04/2012 00:01

Or, as I've seen proposed on other threads, a thread should just disappear if it's reported 100 times (by separate MNers). 100 is a lot of people, and it would get rid of nasty threads - eg racist ones - pretty much instantly.

Maybe that's not an "or". Maybe that could happen as well as Tsarinas taking on more responsibility for deletions.

breadbiscuit · 07/04/2012 23:46

I think the Tsarinas should be given responsibility for rapid response to Reports, then. There must be loads of them. They couldn't delete individual posts, but could delete whole threads. If they got it badly wrong, MNHQ could shoot them at dawn the following day.

MaryZ · 07/04/2012 23:43

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Figarello · 07/04/2012 23:39

A serious question - to the posters who do call troll on threads, why don't you just hit the report button? Why do you have to raise it on the thread?

I am not sure whether or not I have reported someone I suspected of being a troll in the past so I am not sure what MNHQ actually does when a thread is reported for suspected trolldom. But perhaps, if it is not enough to satisfy the so-called troll hunters, some work needs to be done on what MNHQ can do to address suspected trolls.

MaryZ · 07/04/2012 23:39

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breadbiscuit · 07/04/2012 23:35

I agree that to know the percentage of threads where "troll" is called and the OP turns out to be genuine would be very useful. I think it would help to know that. Either it is a useful service to MNHQ or it isn't.

MaryZ · 07/04/2012 23:23

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LadyBeagleEyes · 07/04/2012 23:20

I honestly think that the people that call troll on threads are in the main, 100% right.
I pretty much spot them immediately, but don't post.
I hate seeing lovely, kind people get taken in

MaryZ · 07/04/2012 23:13

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TheSecondComing · 07/04/2012 23:06

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oneofsuesylvesterscheerios · 07/04/2012 22:59

My point is though, the other thread I saw was truly upsetting for the OP, but not a not uncommon situation, which a lot of posters could identify with and offer good, sensible emotional and practical support.

Some dickhead shouted troll for no good reason; their posts were deleted but the reaction remained. So if/when this OP returns to the thread, the fallout will be there for all to see.

OP posts:
KatMumsnet · 07/04/2012 22:58

@TheSecondComing

I wonder if there could be 2 'report' types? One for 'quick-check this out it's horrible' and one for 'oh fgs what an arse' type threads?

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll raise it with The Powers That Be and see what their verdict is.

KatMumsnet · 07/04/2012 22:56

You're right in thinking troll hunting on the boards isn't allowed and we would much rather your suspicions be reported to us, as finger pointing can cause a lot of upset if the poster is actually genuine.

We try our best to zap replies, it would help us greatly if posts that are missed are reported to us. You might have noticed that we have new shiny message for deleted posts say that replies may be deleted too.

oneofsuesylvesterscheerios · 07/04/2012 22:50

Sorry - agree with what TSC said.

OP posts:
TheSecondComing · 07/04/2012 22:49

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oneofsuesylvesterscheerios · 07/04/2012 22:49

Agree.

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breadbiscuit · 07/04/2012 22:45

Those are extreme examples, though.

usualsuspect · 07/04/2012 22:44

It was obvious to me it was a troll , and tbh I felt bad for not being able to say , hang on this sounds a bit odd.

usualsuspect · 07/04/2012 22:43

No one called troll on last nights thread . MN just came on to say it was being deleted.

TheSecondComing · 07/04/2012 22:41

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breadbiscuit · 07/04/2012 22:38

I think Therewasatime puts the dilemma very well.

It is a really difficult situation.

It is awful to be called a troll or a sockpuppet when you are genuinely posting about a very delicate, personal issue.