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Original poster

mn hq, can we have an explanation - jess - and maybe re other trolls in future?

56 replies

wannaBe · 20/02/2012 13:40

I am aware that you can't divulge the means by which you determine whether or not a poster is genuine, predominantly because if you make that common knowledge then posters will know how to avoid being detected in the future.

but jess (long ongoing eleven weeks abortion threads) threads have now been deleted for being a troll, and I was wondering if, given it's the site users who usually report these things, we could perhaps have a bit more by way of explanation?

e.g. when sassysusan was banned, mn hq confirmed that she had previously posted as washwithcare, and users were able to identify.

There has been some speculation that jess was dizzymare, and I wondered whether this was the case?

Also, these threads have been ongoing for over a month now. How is it that it takes quite this long to determine that someone isn't actually all they seem?

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MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 22/02/2012 11:24

@LeBOF

I had a post deleted on here which they did by mistake. I think they are all a bit twitchy after a tough week at the T-face.
MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 22/02/2012 11:23

@hathorinareddress

In the nicest possible way, Rebecca, that's a trolls charter then. Because as long as they pick a sensitive topic they will never get "called" on it on the thread.

This is where we rely on your reports. Shouting troll on a thread does much more harm than good. If folks report to us, we can take a look and deal with it and try our best to minimise any upset.

Trolls are shit, we can't stop them coming but we can try our best to limit the damage, but we need folks to report them to us so that we can get rid.

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 22/02/2012 11:11

@hathorinareddress

Well in that case that is what I'll do in future, but I didn't think that was troll hunting, I thought it was asking the OP to clarify.

But it's not my opinion if someone says (for example) the canary bit my hamster and then changes it to the llama bit my hamster and it spat at the gerbil last week so I know it has a tendency to do these things

When it's obvious (like my dopey example) are we really not allowed to say "hand on was it the canary or the llama and you never said spat at the gerbil before"

If a poster changes their story in a dramatic fashion canaries and Llama's as an example then of course it is ok to say 'hang on a minute, would you mind explaining yourself' it is not ok to say ' You are posting inconsistently' in a troll hunty accusatory way.

We do see that it is a very fine line and it does come down to context so there isn't a clear black and white answer.

If it is a sensitive thread then accusing the OP of trolling (even if they seem to be) when they need some support, really isn't on.

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 22/02/2012 10:50

@hathorinareddress

Rebecca - thank you but why are the aggressive posts accusing of troll hunting allowed to stand then? If my defence breaks guidelines, then the original accusation should also break guidelines and should be deleted.

And are we not allowed to say on a thread then "there are inconsistencies and you have been drip feeding" if a poster has?

If they are personal attacks, they will be removed when reported to us and yes, the original accusation should be deleted.

We would rather you didn't say "there are inconsistencies and you have been drip feeding" even if in your opinion there are/ have been. Because, this is your opinion and sometimes there can be very legitimate reasons behind what is perceived as dripfeeding and also (on occasion) inconsistencies.

Report all of this to us and let us have a dig behind the scenes, dragging it all out on the thread really doesn't help anyone.

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 22/02/2012 10:38

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 22/02/2012 10:36

@MaryZ

Yep, www.urbandictionary.com/products.php%3Fterm%3Dtroll%2520hunter%26defid%3D1520440&docid=PCVuANJLgREAfM&imgurl=rlv.zcache.com/img/imt-prd/pd-148044169903074104/isz-m/at-238560305421145726/realview.jpg%253Furbanword_txt%253Dtroll%252520hunter%2526urbanimage_url%253Dhttp%25253A%25252F%25252Fwww.urbandictionary.com%25252Fproducts.image.php%25253Fdefid%25253D1520440%252526revision%25253D9ece21c09bc633a7d083ec02b94fd9e308c2c639&w=325&h=325&ei=rcRET7zCBMOnhAf7q5GkAg&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=552&vpy=215&dur=429&hovh=225&hovw=225&tx=133&ty=151&sig=116338655759963393129&page=2&tbnh=162&tbnw=156&start=19&ndsp=12&ved=0CJwBEK0DMBU" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">this is what I'm currently sporting Grin

Sorry, Rebecca, that was a joke. Honest.

ha! snap, i'm wearing the very same Grin

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 22/02/2012 10:34

Pag Sad and what Maryz said

MNHQ

RebeccaMumsnet · 22/02/2012 10:31

@hathorinareddress

I've asked HQ for an explanation for my deletion on the other thread, but I'm copying part of my post, as I think it's relevant

"I don't believe my post broke guidelines, otherwise we aren't allowed to defend ourselves - aggressive posters with an agenda can throw out accusations of trollhunting and those to whom the accusation is made cannot defend themselves, which isn't fair."

Hi hathorinareddress

The posts that were removed, were removed for troll hunting or the implication that the OP was/is a troll.

By all means report 'aggressive posters with an agenda' to us and we will take a look but we do ask that you don't troll hunt on the boards.

In your previous post you asked 'How is it troll hunting to say "there are inconsistencies in your posts and you are drip feeding" when that is the case?'

This is troll hunting. We ask that you report inconsistencies and/or dripfeeding to us rather than shout 'troll' on the thread. If you are wrong then folks can and do get hurt, if you are right then the troll is getting all the lovely attention that they crave.

Please please keep reporting, we do look at everyone.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 21/02/2012 11:58

Oh, me quote facility went awry

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 21/02/2012 11:57

[quote lissielou]starlight, I have never thought you were a troll. in fact, 98% of posters, I believe wholeheartedly. however, there is just something that gets me Hmming. a gut feeling that wont go away no matter how much I quash it. and whenever I see a thread by them I get a knot in my stomach. I make deals with myself "if this happens, I might mention to another poster with a better trolldar that I am having doubts" "if this happens I will email HQ" "If this happens I will comment on their thread"

Please, please, please - report to us, as soon as you have any Hmming or gut feelings at all.

We don't mind people being completely and utterly wrong - honest. We don't hold it against you or have MNHQ mugshots of 'people who are forever calling troll'.

We are properly, genuinely grateful for each report. The more you tell us - even assuming that some of the reports will be mistaken - the more likely it is that we'll be able to deal with the people who really are trolling.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 21/02/2012 11:39

@Thumbwitch

Mary, that's actually why I think that one was so funny - because it was an extreme form of real bridezilla types! Grin

Agreed, intention is a big part of it. And getting people's emotional involvement going is never good.

HelenMN - please don't delete the entire thread, just the comments that talk about "how to spot trolls" - no point throwing the baby out with the bathwater, is there? Wink

OK, but we'll need those who posted about "how to spot trolls" to report their own posts to us for withdrawal please.

We have no other grounds for deletion really, do we?

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 21/02/2012 11:38

@hathorinareddress

Helen - oh flip that's not what I meant I just meant I'd made an idiot of myself with my pointy bracket/bolding fail

Blush

I know, hathor, but yours was the one post I could "quote" without drawing too much attention to troll tips, iyswim

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 21/02/2012 11:19

@hathorinareddress

And a troll would never have a strike out pointy bracket fail either

Grin Blush

Erm, we're a bit concerned this thread is turning into a "how to troll successfully" beginners' guide. We don't want to have to to delete this thread but we may have to if it carries on in this vein. Hope you all understand...

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 20/02/2012 16:37

@wannaBe

I have in the past reported messages on the grounds they were personal attacks (and tbh it has to be pretty bad for me to report) only to be told that "while we agree it's a personal attack, we don't feel it's appropriate to delete it at this stage because of other content or the post" or some such.

Really?

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 20/02/2012 16:37

@mrsreplicant

There needs to be a full equal opportunities stylee appeal system against deletions.

And warnings need to go to a tribunal.

Only if I can wear a wig and use an actual

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 20/02/2012 16:17

@MardyBra

I know. How do you think I should phrase that on my CV, Mardy?

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 20/02/2012 15:56

@hathorinareddress

So if I posted "Fuck off you cunt" it would be deleted on the grounds of the "fuck off" and not the "you cunt"?

No it would be deleted on the grounds of it being a personal attack. The sweariness of it doesn't matter.

So...

Fuck off, HelenMumsnet... is a personal attack

HelenMumsnet, you are an idiot.... is a personal attack

HelenMumsnet, you are ugly... is a personal attack

HelenMumsnet, the way you're trying to explain what a personal attack is is fucking rubbish ... is NOT a personal attack (though not very civilised)

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 20/02/2012 15:20

@hathorinareddress

I do think a good "fuck off" delivered with aplomb should still be allowed though

And I don't like that it's not anymore

We love aplomb but not with "fuck off" attached.

And we never have. Our Guidelines haven't changed (in essence) for a decade.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 20/02/2012 15:18

@MaryZ

If we all get too polite...
MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 20/02/2012 15:16

@StarlightDicKenzie

It's usually when you have been following a thread for a bit and then suddenly find yourself going 'oh god, NOW WHAT?' with impatience or where you see a juicy thread title designed to make maximum impact imo.

And that's when you Report, yes, Starlight?

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 20/02/2012 15:15

@Tmesis

So "Oh FFS get a grip or head off to another website if you don't like this one." would have been OK?

Well, tbh, "get a grip" could be read as a personal attack, too - espesh in combination with the rest of the post.

May I respectfully suggest "If you don't like it here, maybe you should post on another site?"

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 20/02/2012 15:04

@Tmesis

I really don't think Soupy's comment was a personal attack at all. Granted, I also think that he ought to take her advice but I wouldn't see it as a personal attack even if it were directed at me.

'Fraid to say it is a personal attack (the "bog off" bit). We're quite clear about that.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 20/02/2012 15:03

@Northernlurker

Pinot - first thing is don't reveal things about your personal story that you aren't happy for what is basically a ghoul to dine out on. If it will hurt you to see it made use of wrongly then DON'T SAY IT. For me for example on Jess's thread I referred to my own unplanned pregnancy. That's fine, it's not a secret and it's many years ago and it worked out fine. I didn't however say anything about what I did or my intimate stuff because that's my stuff and not for common consumption when I don't trust the OP. The second thing is think bout your RL safety and don't give out your e-mail or phone numbers. If you want to meet up do it in a VERY public place and take someone with you.

We'd definitely second that advice, NorthernLurker.

And, Pinot, it might help to read this advice from Hecate that we quote in our Talk Guidelines:

"If you think the person is not real, you don't have to post - nobody has a gun at your head! If you suspect the person is false and trying to hurt, or get money, tell MNHQ! How terrible if genuine people - people in trouble, people at the end of their tether - come here as their last hope for some help and advice, are savaged and go off again, feeling terrible and that they don't have anywhere left to turn to?"

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 20/02/2012 14:57

Let's not get into trollhunting now, please, folks. Or I'll have to delete the thread and I have already worn a weary groove into the delete button today.

Any other concerns about any other posters, please use the report button.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 20/02/2012 14:48

@LeBOF

For example, Soupdragon suggested to him that if he didn't enjoy the way MN worked, there were many other places to explore on the Internet. Deleted. No personal attack, no troll hunting. I'm baffled, I tell ye.

Acksherly. Soupy said, "Oh FFS get a grip or bog off to another website if you don't like this one."

Which was a personal attack

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