Let's talk about sex toys (well, ads for them on Mumsnet), please

I think it's different. Posters using these words are individuals. They are not being paid to promote disrespect towards women's genitals.

When deciding on a policy re sex toys, consider also the often appalling language used gratuitously by many posters - often being substitutes words for the vagina. Hard really to object to advertising sex toys yet allowing people to use f..k, t..t, c..t, etc etc. If the moral high ground is going to be taken (and really I have no view on that one way or the other) it needs to be consistently applied.

"HelenMumsnet (MNHQ) Fri 07-Oct-11 12:33:02

caramelwaffle - The adverts certainly shouldn't be placed in the more sensitive forum areas of this site.

No, if we took them, they absolutely wouldn't be, caramelwaffle - that's a given."

It's not a given. The ad first appeared in Relationships and only in that section (by MNHQ admission), so stop telling porkies. Don't think it wasn't noticed.

i guess the reason for no consultation on this, after McD consultation, is that MNHQ just no longer give a flying fuck? or, rather they care enough to make sure that the significant amount of money they make does not scare off too many readers/posters.

We assumed that MN was set up for good reasons, with good strong morale bases. But, maybe, in fact this was always set up as a media platform, to get women of similar demographic together. BAMM what a fab way to sell products. This may well have been cultivated over the years, lure us all in, gain our trust...

And sex sells as much as a Mark Warner holiday.

You what, Higgle?

That's not a moralistic diatribe against people who enjoy using sex 'toys'.

It's a statement deploring the companies who promote these items as toys and want to sell them to us.

I don't like these items. I don't like them being promoted as toys when they are a pleasure giving device of an intimate nature. Toys are what children use in play.

Sex is not a game and often the use of these things is not harmless. iN fact the promotion of them could be described as harmful to all women.

I do not want to be mumsy, thank you very much!

But nor do I want to see ads for sex sites on here.

I don't care what people get up to in the privacy of their own bedrooms, and if stuff like that floats their boat - fair enough.

But I do really despise what these companies are selling (sorry higgle, but I think we are allowed to express our views), particularly porn. And there is a very, very fine line (IMVHO) between selling sex aids and moving into porn - no matter how 'tasteful' (bleurgh) it might be.

So a very, very definite NO from me, having given this some thought over the last day or so.

Just no, DD1 sometimes reads funny chat threads, she's 13 she'll know about such things soon enough I'm sure, but I don't think MN is the right place. I think we should be, well a little bit Mumsy. This is not Cosmo.

"I despise any company that sells sex 'toys' (please don't call them this - it's again a subtle marketing plot to make them seem harmless and 'fun' when in reality they are anything but)"

Ahem!

A no vote from me, for many reasons that have been articulated here far more eloquently than I can do from My phone.

I don't know why you are perceiving that Higgle.

Any reference to the use of these things has been in the context of them being advertised on the site.

This thread is about advertising on this site. Why are some posters using it as a moralistic diatribe against those who enjoy participating in bondage and submissive play and have a few plastic gadjets stashed away in their knicker drawer for times when they fancy that sort of stimulation?

"Actually I don't think Sh! bondage products are the same at all. Consenting hetero and lesbian couples (and I would imagine, solo women) enjoy bondage. The company has a strong feminist ethos. As Bela says, unaccompanied men can't even enter the shop. I think it's empowering."

But that is silly. Bondage is bondage whether the company is run by women or not. Unless the site has some wonderful gender identification policy, a man can buy, say, a leg spreader from there just as easily as he can from Love Honey. They can mention "your consensual submissive" as many times as they like but it doesn't make it true in all cases does it? They have no idea who uses their products and, most likely, don't care very much or they wouldn't have an online shop where they can't "vet" their customers.

Either these items are unacceptable or they are not.

I would also consider it a massive sell out.

Agree totally with Uppity. And others. But Uppity gets the crux of what it feels like to be merrily plodding around on relationships, after having found a place where you can find support from other women, and then have this advert bang in your face.

People discussing such stuff, totally different ballgame. Discussing, fine.

Endorsed by the site with no discussion, totally wrong.

And yes I too was stunned to see it happen with no consultation, considering there was for MacDonalds. And on the relationships board of all places. Really changed by perception of MN. I always used to admire that it was a success for the women who set it up but they didn't sell out their values.

I've been here for years. When I found my h had been using prostitutes last year I spent more time here, for advice support, where i didnt feel like a prude, or shitty about myself, and for a laugh and escapism.
It aws because mn felt like a safe space, unlike tv, movies and most of the Internet, where I felt for the first time like I was really seeing how completely normalised it was to objectify and sexualise women, and at that time I couldn't bear it, and I wanted to spend time somewhere where women felt like people first and foremost.
I'm ok now, I'm strong again, I can watch telly! But I would truly have felt shitty about seeing love honey type ads here, like it was another reminder of what as a woman i should really be like, same as we get told everywhere else.
Mn is such an island of normal(ish!) in a world that feels bloody mad.
Has it suddenly become so moch more £££ to run it for some reason that MNHQ need the cash?
And jeez, can you imagine the daily fail take on it, and the subsequent influx of horrors.
Let's not, please?

Pavlov - I agree. I think MN has become so big that it isn't about the posters any more, it's about revenue. Even if a load of people leave, it won't affect the revenue streams because there is enough critical mass.

I vote no. Haven't read the whole thread but I agree with most of the "no" opinions on this page. My son is only 3 but I take it for granted that I'll carry on visiting MN as he grows up. I wouldn't want him to look over my shoulder at a tender age to get education in se toys. So please, MNHQ, no.

apparently so

Tipping the balance from a consumer LED website into an advertiser led, marketing led, money led website should be avoided at all costs.

the more i think about it, the more i read on here. the less impressed I am with MNHQ for having already done this without consultation of its readers. Once upon a time, MNHQ would have sought opinions before doing it.

I guess it was going to happen anyway. I did notice how quickly my hand was bitten off at the opportunity to advertise a new restuarant belonging to a famous person, in conjunction with that person's marketing company. Money Talks.

No don't do it, for all the reasons above, stated much more eloquently than I could put it.

It's a bit tacky isn't it.

Do you mind ads for stores/sites that sell sex toys - generally speaking? YES. They are crass. I personally don't really like any advertising but accept you need to make money to keep going. But, honestly, on a parenting forum for people to come on and seek parenting advice and support with parenting or becoming parents? Is it really appropriate? Just because there is a bumsex thread does not mean the whole of MN wants to see toys advertised everywhere. Jeez, it would be like entering a internet sex chat room or something.

Does it matter which stores/sites these are? And what kind of stuff they're selling? Yes, as above.

And, if you wouldn't run a mile from these kinds of ads, would you be happy to see them all over Mumsnet (with the obvious exception of our more sensitive topics such as Bereavement, Special Needs...NO. If they had to be anywhere, then chat would be the best place. And you would see me less there. As I said previously, Ads annoy me when really in my face and I have to sometimes take a deep breath and move on as it is with some ads.

Very good posts, SaF and Greengoose.

'I don't mind where the adverts are, but I think keeping them in chat would be safer (posters are less likely to post something sensitive there).'

Not true. People often post ultra sensitive threads there specifically so that they will be deleted after a few months.

Thanks to those who said they agreed with what I said btw. I agree with those making the point that it's become a question of 'which one can we allow to advertise here?' rather than 'we are sorry, this is not the sort of thing we want to advertise as we know it offends and we will not be doing so in future'.

I meant it when I said I would leave...having been here since 2007 and having had my first long break over the summer, maybe two months or so I didn't even read...it would be easy to leave altogether. I wouldn't miss it if this was the new ethos. You can keep it.

Oh, incase I wasnt clear, I wouldnt use the site again if these adds appear... silly silly silly MNHQ.

Please say sorry for DAFT idea and swiftly move away.......