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Original poster

dear mn hq, please could something be done about the anti sn posts on mn

34 replies

2shoes · 10/09/2011 23:45

as I know you are aware(I have the emails) people from the sn community have left this week, due to the vile things that have been said to the/or about SN.
isn't it time that mn hq took some steps to eradicate this, as you do with trolls? surely disablist/anti sn/ personal attacks should be deleted and something done about the posters.
or do we just keep loosing well informed, SN educated people from mn.
(no I can't link to a thread as there has been too many)

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MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 14/09/2011 22:27

@Sevenfold

oh under my normal name , i seem to be like a bad smell when it comes to reporting, sometimes I feel like the class snitch.

You couldn't be more fragrant, Sevenfold... Wink

And, though, granted, we may not always agree with people's comments when they report posts, our aim is always to reply personally and gratefully (because we are grateful, truly). We do hope you know that.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 14/09/2011 21:20

@Sevenfold

thanks for the reply mn hq, I suppose this is the problem, for all we know you could be taking action and dealing with the trolls(I use that expresion, because it is politer than what I really call them) but it is never seen (for obvious reasons) so all we see is someone like spiderpig repeatedly causing harm, soe we can't help but think nothing is being done or changing. hope that makes sense,

Understood but if you report the (suspected) trolls, you may find you no longer see them causing harm.

And even if you don't find that this happens the first time you report them, the more often you find and report examples of their trollish behaviour, the more likely it is that you'll find you no longer see them.

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 14/09/2011 21:07

Out of me and HelenMN, one is incredibly conscientious, and the other is actually on duty.

I'll leave you to work out which is which...

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 14/09/2011 21:01

I will get right on it, SGM

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 14/09/2011 20:54

@RowanMumsnet

Oh lord, x-posted with Helen
MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 14/09/2011 20:53

Oh lord, x-posted with Helen

MNHQ

RowanMumsnet · 14/09/2011 20:53

Hello,

Justine and Helen did post a bit on this thread on Monday; please scroll up/down (as applicable) to see what they had to say.

We do realise how frustrating this is, but we can't discuss our dealings with individual posters, either on the board or via email - we trust you'll understand why this is so.

Please continue to report anything at all that you think we should look into. We are genuinely grateful for all reports, and even if we don't take action there and then, it helps a great deal in allowing us to build up a bigger picture of posters' behaviour over time.

Thanks.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 14/09/2011 20:52

Evening.

About posters who have posted disablist comments: as we said before - either here or on one of the other threads or possibly on all of them - once we are aware of them, we generally send them a polite reminder of our guidelines/a strong reminder of our guidelines/a firm warning (as appropriate) or, in extreme cases, we may even ban outright.

If that poster continues to post in the same vein, despite our reminder/warning, we would probably move to a ban.

BUT we would have to know they were still posting that way first. Do please, please, please help us by reporting these posts/posters to us.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 12/09/2011 15:26

@StewieGriffinsMom

I think it would be helpful for MNHQ to be more visible on individual threads making people aware of why there are mass deletions, particularly if it is for troll-hunting.

Sometimes it's hard to ignore and report when the poster in question is making the same offensive posts over and over again. SN and the Feminism section both seem to suffer from unpleasant concern trolls whose posts don't directly contravene MN Talk Guidelines but which do feel like personalised attacks. If MNHQ were more proactive and visible in these types of situations, then less people would feel like their individual concerns were being ignored.

Good point, Stewie. We did do this on the Dale Farm evictions thread, in fact. And we will certainly bear that in mind in the future.

MNHQ

JustineMumsnet · 12/09/2011 13:41

Hi Lenin,
The problem with hide poster is that we just think it will cause terrible confusion. Folks reading threads won't necessarily be reading the same thread as some posts might be hidden and it could lead to all sorts of problems from a moderation pov imho [acronym overload]. I know reporting and ignoring isn't a perfect solution and it can be frustrating at times but we really think it's the best solution.
Thanks for the input as ever.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 12/09/2011 11:59

Our pleasure Smile

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 12/09/2011 11:54

Ok, yes you're right, LBD, that we don't want to reveal too much of our behind-the-scenes goings on. Wink

But - and we hope this answers your latest post, Peachy, too - we can say that the more you help us by reporting posters who are behaving like this, the faster we can act (if it turns out we need to).

Please feel free to tell us what you think a poster might be up to when you report them (eg: "I know this particular post by this poster doesn't break your guidelines but I've noticed this poster repeatedly does/says x,y or z")

In short, the more aware we are of possible troublemakers and the more info we have, the faster we can build up a picture of their posting history - and then take whatever action is necessary.

Sometimes, trolls/troublemakers are immediately obvious to us; sometimes, it takes a lot more digging/checking/monitoring.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 12/09/2011 11:23

@LRDTheFeministDragon

'I find it incredibly offensive that a generalised comment about a specific group of people is deemed "inoffensive" simply because no individual was named. That isn't how insults work and its disingenuous to state otherwise.'

This.

People who get their kicks by mocking and winding up people with special needs or their parents and carers should be warned, then banned. Not just deleted every time they trot out the same offensive rubbish.

They are warned, LRD - and, if they persist, they are banned.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 12/09/2011 11:22

@herbietea

Did people see the news on Daybreak this morning which said that disability hate crime rose by 21% in 2010? I have first hand experience of this (I have been harrasssed by local families, called a S**z, and had a firework thrown at my open bedroom window). That is why I am upset and angry about the fact that MNHQ allow these posts to stand ,and it is not just the last few days Helen.

herbietea, that's awful Sad and Shock

But, just to be clear, those posts have not been allowed to stand (though we were slow to act in the first place, as we've already acknowledged).

And if there were others before the last few days, we'd like to know about them please.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 11/09/2011 20:20

[quote MmeLindor]

I reported a poster with the name R***Rus but since heard that the poster was still posting. That is not on.

No, it's not on. Nobody who was reported to us for having a nickname like that would be able to continue posting.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 11/09/2011 20:08

Evening. Apologies for not keeping up with this thread today (it's my day off - wibble) but we really cannot emphasise enough that it is - and remains - our policy to delete disablist posts (once we know about them) and ban/warn those who continue to flout our Talk Guidelines by posting disablism (once we know about them).

The fact that, over the past couple of days, we were not as fast as we should have been to do this (we do apologise for that) does not mean we have changed our policy or that we have somehow gone soft on disablist postings.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 11/09/2011 16:49

@4madboys

btw, other than on here, has anyone heard back from mnhq today? i have reported several posts, (including one of my own, to get it edited) and i havent heard anything? i am guessing because its a sunday.

Hello. Sorry to hear you haven't hear back from us yet, 4madboys. We're sure you'll be hearing soon - reckon there might be a bit of a backlog!

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 11/09/2011 15:50

@Empjusa

"If we believe people to be trolling, Empusa, we will ban them. Whether they post personal attacks or not."

I'm sorry Helen, I'm a little sceptical.

What is the MN definition of troll? Because, as far as I am aware, it is possible to post trolling comments without being a troll. (Which on MN the unofficial definition of a troll seems to be "someone pretending to be someone else")

We define a troll here "someone who poses as someone else in order to stir up trouble, fulfil their own perverted agenda, or just for the hell of it"

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 11/09/2011 15:48

@2shoes

so have i got this right mn hq are going through the threads mentioned and deleted the attacks on the anti sn posters? but leaving the anti sn posts...... is that right?

No, that's not right.
Glitter's thread is still being gone through, afaik - we would not leave a disablist post and delete a personal attack. Both should be deleted.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 11/09/2011 15:27

@Peachy

The glossary in Sn is fine but very dictionary definition IYKWIM; I think a small piece written by someone living with the disorder in their family would be better.

OK, we'll definitely suggest it, Peachy.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 11/09/2011 15:27

@Empjusa

"I can only assume that these posts (Herbie's included) were either personal attacks or accusing someone of being a troll. "

The problem with this is that the trolls (and I use the standard internet definition of, "someone posting in order to offend/cause controversy") know that as long as they don't say anything that can be described as a "personal attack" then their posts will stand, and continue to do the damage they intended.

All it takes is careful phrasing and they've beaten your system.

Whereas the posters who aren't stopping to wonder how they can trick you are getting deleted.

That seems a little unbalanced to me.

If we believe people to be trolling, Empusa, we will ban them. Whether they post personal attacks or not.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 11/09/2011 15:16

@Peachy

So MNHW what about something on here explaining different diagnoses and the challenges that can be a result (eg queing / rude comments from a children with ASD, need for extra sapce for a car with a ramp for a child using a chair etc) written by the aprents but in a proper informed style that you could link to or we could when education is needed?

That's a good idea, Peachy. If we haven't already got it covered in our SN content area, we'll definitely suggest it to the editorial team.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 11/09/2011 15:14

@5inthebed

I agree with Herbie on this one, why delete their posts but not the ones that were causing all the offence?

I can only assume that these posts (Herbie's included) were either personal attacks or accusing someone of being a troll.

But Herbie - if you report it to us, we'd be happy to check and come back to you personally with an explanation.

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 11/09/2011 15:13

@Pagwatch

In fairness I am quite an arse

I hope you haven't taken time out to email me to explain to me why my cunt posts were deleted. I can figure it out Grin

MNHQ

HelenMumsnet · 11/09/2011 15:12

@tethersend

Thanks for considering, Helen- I am (for the first time actually) quite confused by MNHQ's response.

This is the response I got from MNHQ to my reporting kidz' post- I apologise if I should not be CnPing emails; please delete this post if I have done wrong by doing so:

We agree that this thread/post is in poor taste but we don't tend to delete on those grounds because it would be really hard to know where to draw the line.

The truth is, we don't think we should be the arbiters of what people should find offensive and what they shouldn't. On the whole, we think it's better to let the boards self police in these instances, as it's very rare that a tasteless comment is left unchallenged and we can see that others have done just that on this thread.

As ever, we do rely on members like you to help us monitor the boards and we'd like to reassure you that we do consider all reported posts carefully. We shall be keeping a close eye on this thread.

Can you see why I remain confused?

Ok in this context, we are using "self-policing" to mean calling a poster on their (possibly) ignorant opinions by engaging them in a (non-Guidelines-breaking) way to show them the extent of their ignorance.
Apols, tethersend

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