MNHQ .. Can we talk about disability bashing?

We do need more solid ground rules for what is or is not acceptable.

And it should be made VERY clear by MNHQ.

We all know that if a poster started banding about racial remarks, they'd be jumped on. And rightly so.

However, the disablist/offensive remarks often go under the radar IMO.

Comments between posters for example, simple 'name calling'.

There needs to be a list drawn up of words that are NOT acceptable on the talk boards and then something needs to be put in place so that all posters are made aware of those words.

It doesn't have to be The Word Police, it needs to be realistic, but this issue also needs addressing.

so now it isn't just hide it, it is go somewhere else!
how sad that anyone can think that is the answer, that if you don't like disablism you should leave,
I have always had respect for mn hq they have a difficult hob most of the time, but they have lost it on this, they can and will moderate when it suits them, look at the MM threads, people were banned in an instant on that issue.
so to suddenly go all free speech and low tolerance on what is a very seriou issue like this is bad.

'"Mumsnet. By parents, for parents, unless your child has a disability and then we're not particularly interested" (although we will establish an SN section and market that as part of or advertising and recruitment strategy)

You know, in RL MNHQ has been good to me; it is very rare we disagree on much, and they have at times shown real kindness our way. I am sure it is not about intention, but awareness and would wonder how much formalised training they have had, something I think they should have if they run an SN section.

I do btw always love the fact that caring about how my boys are perceived (and other children, and heck yes to an extent myself as I am spectrummmy, albeit very mild and coping) equates to not having a sense of humour, looking for fights and being easily offended.

I am none of those.

I would choose a piss up and a lugh with mates over tackling inequality on here any day, but find it easy enough to combine both into my life.

'Every single person on Mumsnet is an individual with individual needs and thoughts - we all draw the line in slightly different places - it's almost impossible to please everyone -'

Right, in which case one should ascribe to the highest possible level of standard.

As for if you don't like MN a reverse argument would surely be to simply blow a raspberry point out i;ve been here since ds2 (aged 10) was born and that many SN users are long termers; why should the oldies shift rather than the newbies (wide definition of newbie)?

But don't think that's the answer. I think high standartds of sensitivity given that one knows one is posting on a site used by disabled people and carers is always right.

There are sites when people can post fuckwittery, they welcome new members with open arms. Ther are sites that have established SN sections and advertise as for parents. The distinction is clear.

In my RL I often advise parents where to seek support and have advised so many to head here. I just would not do that any more for fear of what I might expose them to. There is always a risk of prats posting rubbish (I remember the eprson who launched into a massive rant with copious insults about DH having depression and being unemplyed when in fact he ahd 2 jobs, alongside his depression) and that is not preventable but a concise deletion policy and deeper understanding of disability issues is more than doable, it is a moral obligation when running a site like this.

That's not what I'm saying at all - I'd ban quite a few words but what you'd end up with then is netmums, and 1000's of people would leave.
It's a difficult balance to get right.

I think both a post on the thread (which then flags up to everyone that it is now OTW, rather than it being hidden, as currently) and a reminder to the poster - that way no one can continue hassling and protest "I didn't know you meant me!"

Primal: no, MNHQ cannot please everyone all of the time. But if they really have no interest in trying to help vulnerable posters, then they should say it out and loud. then the (few) SN posters left who feel comfortable posting (both about their children/daily ives and on main boards) can make their decision on what to do.

but standing in the middle and hand-wringing and saying "oh, but we want to help, but we cannot see what we can do about it" is not constructive.

make some rules - then people know where they are

(and the current rules aren't working - as has been shown, time and again. not least because there has been a bizarre discrepancy between racist/homophobic language and disablist language (viz: low/zero tolerance))

if you want a site where it is a free for all, and you don't care who gets hurt - well, nice for you.

all this thread is asking for is that actually, some posters are asked to think a little more, and have a little more consideration. not really a lot to ask for, imo.

Brownsugar

Exactly. Maybe a very visible warning would work?

Not impossible to moderate comment that falls foul of an act of law though, surely?

Every single person on Mumsnet is an individual with individual needs and thoughts - we all draw the line in slightly different places - it's almost impossible to please everyone -

Why SHOULD we find somewhere else?
We didn't always have kids with additional needs. Why should we move along nicely now that we do?

Maybe they get it right to the majority.... I'm not saying for one moment that us parents with kids with SN are the majority, are you?

Are you being forced to use Mumsnet?
If the site ( or any other site/club/school/group ) isn't meeting your exact standards you are free to look for alternatives - (although ime nowhere is utopia) . I think HQ get it right in the vast majority of cases. The success of mn must surely prove that.

I'm not buying that she didn't know it would cause offence.

And yet again MNHQ will not be commenting further to justify their ignorance.

"Mumsnet. By parents, for parents, unless your child has a disability and then we're not particularly interested"

i disagree, i think it was marginal for a while and the poster has to be given the benefit of the doubt.

I agree it should have gone as soon as it was reported but it did serve a purpose Shoesy, it was designed to cause uproar, which it did.

I hope that the OP is very pleased with her achievement.

I don'see why it should be down to me or us to hide threads or posters, mn should have zero tolerance(not low) and as soon as they are reported they should be gone, no point imo just zapping words, if you take spastic out of that thread title the op won't make sense, not that it did anyway, but you know what I mean, you would get people guessing and the trolls and bigots would get even more attention.
the spastic thread should have gone, it served no purpose.

I agree that zapping words would be a good idea. But that would mean the thread/words having to be reported in the first place unless it was a OTW.

I really don't agree with the 'if you don't like it, hide it' school of thought. If you could hide posts or posters that you found offensive, then that may work but a lot of the time, there are parts of threads that I want to read, for imformative reasons or to add my advice etc.....

Whoever said it was time for some hard and fast rules is right to a certain degree, but will that please all of the MNers?

If you ban certain words/phrases, who decides what they should be?

I don't know

I think what I would start doing was to be more vigilant overall. send out some polite reminders to posters who seem not to be getting the message. and then temporarily suspend them if polite reminder ignored.

one strike and you're out (for a while)

coupled with more posts on threads - a more public message of "we've had to send out some "play nicely" reminders. please do, or you're all in trouble." (you know, the equivalent of a parental "I don't care who started it - sort it out, or there''ll be trouble!")

I don't think there is enough thought that goes into posting, most of the time. and all the posters who always fight for the right to say (whatever, whenever, we're not fluffy here" - do they really mean that? because right now, MN appears to be being taken over by a lot of rude, unthinking people who do not care who they upset. and when it is pointed out that people are upset, not only do they not care (and not apologise) they laugh a bit more and twist the knife.

and that is not a community to be proud of, tbh.

(and yes, I know all the good that MN does too - and I do not discount that. but the left hand and the right hand are joined. and it is not enough to do good with one, while ignoring the slapping down handed out by the other)

yeah, you're probably right...

so you would zap the spastic thread and the freakshow one (where btw one of the mums from BTBD has just gone on and told the poster how wrong she is)? or zap the words? i would be inclined to zap words, i think. dunno why that's not possible.

"this whole place is so bandwagonesque at the moment that all it takes is for one influential poster to start yelling and the whole mob descends"

which is why I think it is time MNHQ came out with some hard and fast rules too, rather than relying on the wishy-washy approach that has served ok in the past.

doesn't mean that discretion cannot still play a part.

but the whole bandwagon thing is just wearing thin.

and, quite honestly, as a community, MN is NOT doing well at self-policing. the loudest voices are the ones listened to - and when those voices are the ones shouting "it was only a bit of fun" (re: the poof thread - I agree with you, aitch), or "it's PC gorn maaaaaaaad, I tell you" - well, that is not really particularly enlightened, is it?

so someone, somewhere has to start drawing the line.

and it might as well be MNHQ, since it is their site

(or alternatively, if they don't want to - be upfront about that. say openly that actually, they would rather not offend posters by asking them to show some moderation and consideration, which woudl at least give (for eg) the SN posters the fuller picture - that they will never be fully supported here and might as well bugger off and start a new forum/club. which, incidentally, a lot of them have done anyway, mostly due to similar threads in the past, and lck of support)