MNHQ .. Can we talk about disability bashing?

and i wish that hadn't been the case, fanj, i swear. i'm sincerely sorry that you were hurt and i can see why you would have been.

agreed, shoesy. but it wasn't disablist.

No hackles were up, iwas genuinely wounded to the point of tears by the offending phrase, that's the long and shortbof it...no mob mentality or outrage at the words used but real hurt

well i cannot agree that that would be the right thing at all, fanjo. so we must agree to differ. i do not walk in your shoes and i do not claim to, but we do not tend to let the aggrieved dictate the law in this country and i do think that yours would have been the wrong response.

if someone posts a disablist post it should be deleted. end of.

well it may be that Lenin was right when she said earlier on that if a hard line was taken about words like spaz, mong, retard etc then it might be easier to let something like that carry on a bit longer as hackles wouldn't be up. (am paraphrasing).

although that is kind of what i was saying, when i said that a firm line might help with the rampaging mobs, so you might object to that as well.

Yes, as it hurt people, deletion wasn't necessarily a punishment but a protective measure to stop others seeing it

so you would have deleted the freak show comment from the off, fanjo? despite the lack of intent, despite it having been written in a satirical voice, despite the posters saying 'hang on, i think she means something else entirely - you wouldn't have waited for clarification?

perhaps people jumped, but maybe they were pushed,
if you have had to put up with this crap over and over, in rl and on here, you loose patience, we are told to educate but ffs if people react they are called a mob.
no win situation, oh hang on the haters win

I just cannot engage with someone about this who cannot understand my position because you can't if you haven't experienced it, broad minded and intelligent though you undoubtedly are.

sorry, no. you were not the victim. she was trying, quite craply, to defend children exploited by television. she didn't call your children freaks, any more than i called john merrick one earlier.

anyway, i am broadly pro justa's points, think that MNHQ's deletion approach has to become more nuanced, but also think that a lot of people behaved badly on that thread. i can handle feeling all of those things at the same time, it's fine.

true enough, but once the poster has come back and explained, and said that they work with disabled children and is horrified at the accusation, it's time for the benefit of the doubt.

but then my friends were accused of being cunts and paedophiles by some of MN's finest, so i am probably a little sensitive to the mob rule thing.

this i what always happens the person who causes offense becomes the victim.
when the real victims are the people who have to put up with being called these names.
you must know what it is like, the heartbreak at someone calling your child a spaz or a retard, it hurts, so you come on a place like here, and see grownups using disblist terms, and if you challenge you are attacked.
calling the offended is no different to calling them the sn mafia, or saying pc gone mad or all the other crap things people say.
it was right to delete that post, just a shame mn hq don't do it more.

Bottom line - I dont think you can say how we should interpret things and whether they are crystal clear to us unless you walk in our shoes..,sorry

i think that more people should have read that post properly, is what i think. it was crystal clear. and then the poster came back and made it crystal clear again, but was ignored.

but that is want mn hq want, they want to educate, but if we do we get called names.
you are calling people who were offending a mob, I am confused now as I thought you were supportive, but now you don't even want people to react

they should react by reporting the thread, if they feel the person is trolling. as was presumably felt to be the case with the freakshow thread. you really cannot have it both ways.

if they instead respond on the thread and act like a mob, they're a mob. hurt or not.

bottom line is that the poster was not trolling, she was a bit odd and she was talking about the wrong programme but her comment should have been let to stand. mn held off on this for as long as possible, but they eventually gave in. they shouldn't have, because in actual fact it made things on that thread a lot worse. the mob still hung around to have their say, and someone who had been speaking out on behalf of children with disabilities (albeit in satirical style, which i agree was not sensitive) was branded disablist.

sorry I don't like offended people being called mobs, if you post something that ill cause offence, people have to react.

tbh aich with out meaning to I think you have proved the point, people can't win when they point out something is offensive, they get called things like a mob/sn mafia and so on

to be completely clear, i think that a mob went after that poster on the freakshow thread. i think they were wrong, and i think that they forced the poster into an invidious position.

i think that a mob went after the girl on the natalie cassidy thread as well.

i am reasonably open with friends as to the fact that i use this site. two people i know, who i really, really like and respect, have revealed to me that they were hunted down and flamed on here, in the most disgusting fashion. one was accused of being a paedophile, in a thread that ran for days (she revealed who she was by PM when i appeared on the thread saying wtf). the other was called a cunt and a bitch and a bad mother for something so fucking trivial it beggars belief, but a pile on is a pile on so great fun for all concerned.

i think MN have a tricky job managing all of us on here and mostly get it right. i think that should be the starting point for any discussion, tbh. but i think that we ALL have to be responsible for our behaviour, the offendor and offended, because all too often people are both at the same time.

Im proud that i started the thread about the disgusting comments. No one should use the f.......k word anywhere near sn children.

Yes, for 'rampaging mob' read 'hurt people"

"rampaging mobs " not sure what you mean by that, sound a bit like the stuff we get thrown at us, perhaps it is all part of the mn hq education thing.
they seem to like a poster getting a bashing. you report a sick post and get the oh we believe in self moderation and it is being handled on the thread...
but having once had a thread go really bad because people objected to something I said , I can say that saying sorry I shouldn't have said that doesn't work, people don't read that bit, they just keep jumping and jumping, and in the end you bite back and become the villan.
I was unlucky, I started the thread at a weekend back in the less people at mn hq days, so it was there for the whole weekend, I cried a lot I tell you.
so I do understand why when cornered people fight back even when they are/or feel cornered. but there has to be aline, mn hq shouldn't allow it ot go that far. this is a big site and the days where self moderation worked is over, there needs to be someone who will step in and delete, not only to protect us, but the posters who make mistakes.

she basically went on the attack to defend herself - because she was horrified and furious to be accused of calling disabled children freaks. (as any sane person would be). so a lot of her posts got deleted, i think.

what she should have done was said 'oh fuck, wrong show, so sorry,' and backed away. but she didn't. it doesn't make her an absolute bitch, which is how she was treated tbh. (this is funny because i think she thinks i am the enemy... she was so angry she didn't even get that i was on her side).

like i say, i believe in manners and kindness. but that is not the ethos here any more, by virtue of the size of the place, and i do agree that Something Must Be Done. hopefully it might also calm the rampaging mobs down a bit as well.

That happens on just about every AIBU thread though doesnt it? Someone says something, gets a pasting, admits they may be U and people keep joining and re-pasting.

Its certainly not exclusive to that horrible thread.

If you saw the post for what is was meant then I accept that but I honestly didnt. I am very cynical about medical/disablity/poverty programming myself and have ranted a fair bit in the past. Her post just seemed too off tbh .

But she came back, swore it was not the case and I accepted that. Why would she bother to lie? The pretending to be normal bit showed a real lack of insight though.

Personally I prefer for posts to stand so the poster can be challenged and their words are there as testament to their bigotry. But I accept that this is not how everyone feels and understand the wish for deletion. Sometimes the words are just too hurtful.

What would make me happy? If someone posted a hateful word or view I would rather that the majority put them straight, that everyone truly understood the damage and distress caused and refused to leave it unchallenged. This would make me happier than MNHQ deleting and barring posters. BUT until this happens we should have some protection.

Aitch (call me mouse)

I didn't see her other posts, just figured out what had been said by the replys.

I agree if that's the case, which is why I think a three strikes and you're out rule would work. As in you get three public/private warnings and then if you continue to use inappropriate words/phrases as deemed by MNHQ, then you get banned.

There needs to be VERY clear rules from the off on this. It has to be CRYSTAL to all posters, and public too. None of this, 'I didn't know' wah wah wah.......