Where did the 'HouseBoy' thread go?

"Putting lots of noses out of joint here, but I can live with that. Some people here (often British, I'm ashamed to say) should be thoroughly ashamed of how they treat their home help."

This is the crux of the problem theBossofMe. Another human being should not by accident of fate have a decent employee or not.

Unfortunately the employment laws of most of the Gulf States allows all employers to treat their staff with impunity. There is a distinct pecking order of what can happen to an employee in the Gulf. The pecking order descends by skin colour or rather continental origin.

Whites - euro or euro descent
Fair skinned Arabs of non Gulf origin
South East Asians and Black Muslims
Indian Subcontinent

Their wages, protections under the laws and rights as an employee etc. descend with their lists.

A lot of european accommodate this racism by compromising their morals if they had any to begin with.

No one should be subject to impunity because of where they were born and this is what the laws of these countries allow.

Lots of Europeans mix and match their morals when they get there. The develop selective blindness to justify their gain from morally bankrupt immigration and employment laws.

the case of Habib Hussien

interesting light on the topic

I think it should be pointed out that alot of the expats from the Sub continant pay alot of money to agencys or local sponsers,to bring them to the Middle East.My Housemaid was paying her local sponser 5ooBD (700 pounds) a year,just to be here.We now sponser her and she is planning on bringing her Niece over.With the money she earnes she has bought a house in India.If we were to let her go as was not moraly correct to employ her she would be back to paying off her visa,may end up working for a local family who beat them,dont often pay.Children spit at them and made to sleep on the floor.So,no i am not congratulating myself,but Cynthia,with her Hindi cable TV is happier than most.

thanks Justine and Catherine for tackling it and for the explanations

thread was too long for me to follow tbh.

dittany - not all expats treat their home help like that. DDs nanny lives in our apartment (not in a maid's room, because I wouldn't have made my cat live in there), is paid more than double the "locally accepted wage" for her services, has a contract with set hours and duties, set holiday (4 weeks a year on top of our generous 19 days bank hols), sick pay, medical insurance etc etc - in fact, all of the things I would reasonably expect to provide an employee of similar standing in the UK. She eats at our table when she wants to, but chooses not to most of the time, preferring to go out and eat with her friends (who are all begging me to find them a job like hers).

No, I don't pay her UK minimum wage, but that would be a fortune here - more than senior local executives in my industry, more than teachers, more than doctors. I do pay her enough to support herself, her extended family of about 6 people back in Myanmar, and to save for her future. I also, at her request, pay for her to take classes in English and cooking (the latter for her pleasure, she doesn't cook for us).

She's a refugee from Myanmar, and is only miles away from her family because of the political situation there. Had she not found work in a domestic situation (one of the few jobs open to non-Thais if you aren't hugely highly educated), she would have been sent back across the border. So there would have been no benefit to her if she hadn't found a job doing what she's doing - she would have suffered, so would her family.

I've posted about her before - she's in her situation because of an accident of birth and i have no doubt that had she been lucky enough to be born somewhere with greater opportunities, she would have made so much of herself - she's smart, well-educated and a born achiever. She's with us now, and i see it as part of the deal and, to be honest, a human thing to do to a) make sure we give her oppportunities that she wouldn't otherwise get and b) make sure that she isn't exploited either by us or by anyone else.

Putting lots of noses out of joint here, but I can live with that. Some people here (often British, I'm ashamed to say) should be thoroughly ashamed of how they treat their home help.

I love the comparison of MN to Fight Club!!

Is this the start of something beautiful!

Personally I am very uncomfortable with the thread being pulled "because this is not what MN is about" and "links to FB". I appreciate Catherine coming back to clarify however I feel unsatisfied with the explanation. I don't use fb but I think we can assume people who know each other on MN discuss MN problems on fb. At least it is very likely and for that reason I don't think it should be a reason to pull a thread, individual posts- yes, but not a whole thread. surely this will be an ongoing issue.

I can't honestly see why discussing whether an expat employer of household help can bring her employee to the UK to work for her there is any less relevant or appropriate to MN than many other threads on here. In fact it was quite interesting, raising as it does several issues regarding the expat lifestyle (being an expat myself from an expat childhood background it interests me), our responsible attitude to the developping world whilst living there and whether it is morally correct or even legally possible to import those conditions into the UK for a holiday period.

Could we have clear guidelines set out on the site outlining conditions under which threads may be pulled for the future? I have looked but not found any. Would that be feasible at all? I would welcome it if the pulling of threads could be referenced to a specific breach and therefore appear less arbitrary.

The thread got tense at times, from the little I saw of it also quite personal; however threads here often do. I have seen threads which IMO were far worse and yet were left standing.

vive la difference(sometimes)

lol....nah noddy, just not my style, and y'know what, I have a grudging respect for you too, you always insulted me in your own name

As the story unfolded, the "houseboy"'s situation started to seem grimmer and grimmer. Bussed in from a dormitory, "not allowed" in the compound except for work, what would have happened if they'd wanted to invite him round for dinner? Is that not allowed? How would it be prevented? And home so infrequently as well - I don't think this is the OP's fault but her DH's company ought to make a stand and insist on better living conditions for what are effectively their sub-contractors. It may be normal but it ain't good.

dp never thought i'd say it but you are bloody honest with your views even though 2 people couldn't be more different than you and i after the sneakiness i've seen this w/e I totally respect that you don't name change or creep around off board

Pagwatch;

I (finally) gave into facebook about a month ago. On joining quite a few people from MN who I have had email convos with over the yrs came up as friend suggestions...I ignored all but 1 of them...(on facebook to get away from MN iykwim)....would never join the mumsnet f/b group either....Now you've got me wondering if those friend suggestions can see what I'm saying..?

Well Pag - I have some of the mn Style and Beauty ladies on fb and we never talk about mn on fb.

Its like fight club isn't it? It was the whole blurring/crossover thing that was a bit uncomfortable I think.

My BIL emigrated to live in South Africa about 10 years ago. He and SIL employed a maid/housekeeper who lived in a tiny room that formed part of the garage! This was apparently normal. She sent money home and saw her young children about once every 6 months. It made me feel sick.

Fortunately I did have a chance to tell my(now ex) SIL my views on the subject when visiting SA. Well, she did ask for it after she told me that Nelson Mandela was a terrorist.

Have just finished reading 'The Help' and its bizarre just how similar the expat life sounds to the US of the 60's - and not in a good way.

Can I just ask?
I keep MN and FB seperate - in fact rarely use fb.
I have linked one MN member. And have not joined MN group.

Do MN fB groups and sub groups all do threads about threads?
If I am having a spat with someone on here , are they sitting on a FB group discussing with other MNers what a cunt I am?

Just wondering.. [paranoid] and

A very close friend moved to Hong Kong several years ago.

Before she went we used to joke about people who kept a 'lady' under the stairs to do all their chores. We agreed it was pretty dreadful.

Fast forward a couple of years and when I visited I met their live-in maid/nanny and saw her teeny/tiny bedroom off the kitchen complete with bathroom that consisted of a shower over the loo.

My face must have shown how shocked I was - I mean this was still my lovely friend. But after a few years of the expat life - she had come to think this was normal.

oof!

Arf

er
help er

I also know people who travel with their domestic help-this is for tether-er