FFS Clacton

Well it’s out there in time for the next one which will probably be before the end of the year. Lots of ammunition for all the other parties’ election material with graphic costed illustrations to show Clacton voters how much money a Reform vote could cost them.

I’m enjoying our conversation. I got the sense that you felt I hadn’t professed my anti-Farageness quite enough.

I don’t think it’s a fair reading to say Reform is changing those policies in order to get at Clacton-type voters. It’s always going to be hard to say who Reform “despises” because a party isn’t a single person.

I guess the question is whether Reform looks at Clacton and sees mainly working-class left-behind Brits (not the enemy) or sees layabout benefits scroungers (ok I’d accept they are probably not popular). They certainly don’t look at Clacton and see foreigners.

Bit strange of you to assume that.

How do you think the people of Jaywick will benefit from Reform's policies?

For example

"Nearly half of the working-age population is economically inactive."

How will Reform get them back to work and pay them a decent wage?

Not really. I had said I wasn’t a fan of Reform. You countered by saying I hadn’t said I dislike him.

I don’t think those polices will help Clacton.

I don’t know if I’m mentioned it, but I’m not a fan of Reform (I dislike them).

None of that says anything about whether Farage has been a successful politician. I think je has been for reasons I’ve explained.

If you think he’s been an unsuccessful politician you could explain what that means to you. I’m not sure it’s about councillors resigning (at least, not set against everything else). I also think there’s no contradiction in recognising a successful poltician whose politics one disagrees with.

Maybe look at his track record as an MEP and as MP for Clacton.

He is a successful disruptor and very successful in pulling wool over people's eyes. Anti-establishment, man of the people.

And extremely succesful in getting money from people for doing so.

OK:

He’s one of the few MEPs whose speeches I can recall any of.

He’s probably one of the few MEPs that any Briton could name.

He leveraged his MEP position pretty effectively to advance his politics.

As MP for Clacton he’s led his party to leadership in the national polls (now slightly off).

Is there anyone you would name as a successful politician whose politics you disagree with?

To be fair, when he was a MEP for UKIP. He had one policy and got it delivered. I think he has been quite successful. I'd go as far as saying too successful.

You said he was a thick conspiracy theorist.

I’m asking you again to please stop writing to me, either in the board or in direct messages. I won’t be replying to either, except to ask you to stop again if you continue.

That's not the way this forum business works @GeneralPeter. If you post contridictory, confusing nonsense people, including me, will discuss that with you.🤷‍♀️

Are you normally this angry with women?

@faithfultoGeorgeMichael
The main parties did not want to be part of Farage’s circus of a by-election. Why should they waste time and money on that ridiculous contest. He’s playing the victim again.

I disagree. Debating robustly and in good faith, yes.

Continually misconstruing a poster to have them answer for things they didn’t say and don’t believe is borderline. Is the poster genuinely unable to grasp the difference or is it malicious? It can be hard to judge.

Continuing to engage with someone who has asked repeatedly for you to stop I think is a step too far.

And taking an on-board disagreement into direct messages after that person has made clear they don’t want to engage any further is something I have never known in 15 years.

Please desist.

Debating robustly and in good faith? Is accusing me of triggering🙄 you by quoting you, and then getting abusive, your idea of a good faith debate?😬

Please stop now. There’s nothing more to be had here.

I will certainly not. You don't get to silence my voice, you don't get to control my posts. If posting here is distressing you, step away from the keyboard. It's not up to me, or anyone else here to manage your emotions @GeneralPeter.

What did he say in this speech? Anything about the fishing industry?

You were lucky to catch it with Farage's attendance record.

Was it about his friend Gill and the Russian bribes?

He has got a nice pension out of it.

It was a sort of tirade against the EU, as you’d expect! The “who are you?” one to van Rompuy.

But you’re right. Not much attendance but a lot of coverage. Great politics for him.

I’m not sure what you think a successful politician of Farage’s politics would be doing at the EU parliament. He doesn’t have any legitimate interest in EU legislation by that point. He had one major political goal and he delivered it.

Its as if Tony Benn had taken his hereditary seat in order to decry the institution of the unelected second chamber, had successful led to its abolition, and you were to call him an unsuccessful politician on the grounds that he hadn’t passed many amendments while a lord. He fundamentally disagrees with it. His big political goal was to get out, and he did.

This conversation is a bit at cross-purposes because you keep pointing out things Farage did that you dislike and that I also dislike. Unless they made him a less successful politician I don’t think they are relevant. We’re not debating whether we like him or approve of his behaviour or agree wifn his policies, becuase we both don’t.

He didn't do anything for the fishing industry as an MEP, the job he was elected for.

Tirade against the EU but happy to accept their money.

Now as an MP his attendance record is similar. Just look up his voting record.
What is he delivering for the people of Clacton?

What is he delivering for his £5m?

I am not sure what we are debating, his Brexit success?

He's delivering SFA for the people of Clacton.

Too busy serving himself, his mates and Vladimir Putin.

I think we are just rehashing our old points now. I explained upthread why I consider him to be a successful politician.

You might as well call Thatcher unsuccessful as a poltitician because she failed to grow the power of the unions. It’s not what she was going for.

Farage stood in 1999 as MEP candidate on a platform of withdrawal. Not of fisheries policy reform.

Thatcher actually did her job.

Farage was successful in achieving Brexit, you wonder why he is not celebrating it and takes credit for the boats and the change in immigration.

Another example of a leftie wanting the left to be the only option

Not me, I want a PR system so that more parties a represented, even if it means Reform wins more seats.

Are you a rightie who wants the right to be the only option?

You're meant to quote the specific leftie you're whinging about.

If he voted for Farage to annoy lefties then he is stupid, and I'm happy to say so.
Its not us who are going to get stuck with an incompetent wrong 'un for an MP. We are sitting pretty right now with our shiny new PM and a good two years of the government we voted for ahead of us.
Unless he meant the 'lefties' of Clacton, who may have been annoyed. However one Reform MP isn't going to change the direction of travel for the Labour government so they still have more to be happy about than the stupid guy.