TTC: Pregnancy on Prednisolone or similar part 7

arian i love you!! i spent ages in oz looking for an alternative to steriods and had no luck, i just spent the last few hours looking into Dr Trevor Wing , i expected someone chinese!! he sounds good, when are you going ? it says there is a 3 mth wait to see him then the herbs he puts you on are for another 3 mths before you start trying, it is expensive !! but i'm willing to give it a try, v excited, we are TTC now so not sure what to do .

Here are my stats :

Preg 1 - 9.5 wks- gestational sac no fetal pole seen.
Preg 2 - 12.2 wks - heartbeat seen but stopped. Trisomy 13.
Preg 3 - 7 wk scan - gestational sac v small fetal pole seen no heartbeat.

NK cell activated high/v high Dr S - Sep 2011
2 natual cycles
2 super ovulation cylces
1 IUI cyle

Preg 4 - IVF & CGH - 2 embryos - 5 wks - 2 gestational sacs but no fetal poles. 40mg pred, 2 x intrallipids and clexane.

May 2012 - Dr G - Diagnosed with ureplasma and hidden C. DH diagnosed with fragmented DNA sperm due to infections. NK cells normal levels.

On strong antibitoics and TTC break until re tests in August.
Will take 25mg pred and clexane from next BFP just in case.

Here are my stats

Preg 1: MC age 27 found out on 12 week scan (diff partner). Only products found.

Age 36 onwards

Preg 2: Molar found on scan.
Preg 3: Chromosone (Edwards Syndrome) found out at 12 week scan.
Preg 4: MC (approx 6.5 weeks or heartbeat stopped prior to 8 weeks)
Preg 5: MC (approx 6.5 weeks or heartbeat stopped prior to 8 weeks)
Preg 6: MC (approx 6.5 weeks or heartbeat stopped prior to 8 weeks)

(No diagnosis for any of the above, treatment started for the below, borderline sticky blood diagnosed, no NKC issues detected)

Preg 7: MC fragmin (blood thinner), asprin, vits (approx 6.5 weeks or heartbeat stopped prior to 8 weeks)
Preg 8 Lucky number 7 with DH. DS was born (age 41) low dose steriods, fragmin (blood thinner), asprin, vits
Preg 9: low dose steriods, fragmin (blood thinner), asprin, vits

Fragmin excluded from treatment as not deemed neccessary

Preg 10: MC low dose steriods, asprin, vits

HNKC detected hence higher dose steriods

Preg 11: MC high dose steriods, Asprin, vits (approx 6.5 weeks or heartbeat stopped prior to 8 weeks)
Preg 12: MC high dose steriods, Asprin, vits (heartbeat stopped about 8.5weeks )

Interesting about the STD's. I also when out with a male 'tart* before the age of 28 so would not be surprised if I had caught something. Why don't they just give out the antibotics as a matter of course. Why pay out for all of the tests? If MC's are caused by this why go through all of the heartache and cause the NHS an unecessary expense when a simple course of anitibiotics may do the trick.

The good news is that I had my SO scan last Wed (4th SO cycle) and there was one nice sized follie. Left ovary defo not working. Keeping my fingers crossed for a BFP whilst on hols in the Sth of France. My AF is on a shorter cycle now ie 21/22 days.

A huge congratulations to the Brownie family. S0 please for you.

hello ladies.. well a lot to catch up on . brownie welcome Amelia .. gorgeous name. Interesting you also had unreplasma cheerful and antibiotics before successful PG and PQ too with sore throat.
Ari yes DH and I have exactly the same drugs to take for 25 days. Started today. I tested positive for unreplasma and traces of hidden chlamydia (pls note my standard chlamydia tests done here in UK from urine tested negative - these are mandatory before IVF ) this was found in menstural blood sent to Athens. DH had enterococcus which can go someway to explain his high DNA fragmentation in sperm. He has to re rest 3 mths after we finish antibiotics. pebbles) does that help? Ari am intersted in your alternative route. Thanks Sue and belly D. Care* exactly what I did ask Dr G and he said they don't know for sure but it is likely if there is a hidden infection the body tries to fight it yes so could be linked.

Right then. Off to bed as I am knackered. Have a good weekend folks.

Thought would add mine too as I think
It is interesting to compare when different people MC. I am waiting to test,

Preg 1 - conceived naturally, first time - he is now 2.7y old
Preg 2 - mc 5 weeks
Preg 3 - mc 5 weeks
Preg 4 - mc 5.5 weeks
Then went to mr s But was pregnant at first appt, getting bfp that morning. Started steroids that day at 3.5 wks, mc at 8.5 baby stopped growing around 6 weeks

Congrats to brownie too, great to hear some positive news

Carebear that's too complicated for me to get my dismal baby brain around at the moment - but you might have a point!

Sue it is an interesting point at about what stage people miscarry. I was thinking of adding number of miscarriages/chemicals on the list for people to refer to. This is my 5th pregnancy with the first two not being so emotionally traumatic as I was 19/20 and not ready for children. They helped alarm bells ring when I miscarried last year though which led me to testing and Mr S. Mine were:

Pregnancy 1: termination age 19, had to have testing afterwards - turned out had been a mmc est 8 weeks.
Pregnancy 2: Age 20, didn't know I was pregnant (very ill with thyroid probs), miscarried v painfully est around 8 weeks.
Pregnancy 3: Miscarried again v painfully after baby was found to have died at 12 week scan. Baby measured 7.4 weeks.
Pregnancy 4: On 40mg Pred/intralipid treatment with Mr S. No growth on 6 week empty sac. ERPC at 8 weeks.
Pregnancy 5: 33.3 weeks pregnant today on treatment.

congrats Brownie.

Hope you're ok Echo.

Just a thought of the day - what if the immune system gets raised because its fighting off something, e.g. a bacterial infection like hidden chlamydia or whatever. If we're then taking immune suppressants, wouldn't that mean that a bacterial infection could then run rampant and do more damage because its not being targeted properly by the body's natural defence system? Has anyone ever asked Mr S something along these lines?

echo sorry to hear your Erpc has been delayed. I have had 2 chemical pregnancies where I started bleeding at around 5 weeks on Mr s's plan and am now about 6.5 wks. I too am taking the hydroxy this time so I am hoping it will make the difference.
free and others who have miscarried on the plan, what week did you get to when you knew you were miscarrying as I wonder if most lose them around 6-8 weeks. I know most chemicals up to 6 weeks are caused by implantation failure and that 6-8 wks are due to normally hormonal or immune problems. It would be interesting to see if there is a common loss date amongst us as there have been quite a few chemicals recently.

I know, Pebbles, I was sitting here mournfully staring at my wedding photos, desperately eyeing the letter box for your card :) Don't worry, no-one in the family remembered either! Just DH of course.

So sorry about the delay on the ERPC Echo. It's such a horrible time of limbo as it is and I know you must want to get it out of the way as soon as possible. As for miscarrying on the treatment, I know quite a few of us have. I think I have put most people who did so on the list so you might be able to scroll through and have a look. I miscarried once on steroids (40mg) and intralipids but the next time (am currently 34 weeks pregnant) when hydroxychloroquine was added in I have been (so far!) ok.

You never know what makes the difference though. I didn't have any testing so the mc on treatment could have been chromosomal or 'just one of those things'. I had an ERPC and Mr told me to wait two full cycles before starting again - giving the body a rest from the steroids was seen as important in this though.

I remember that antibiotics thing sticking in my mind too Euro, BellyD, Ari and whoever else is looking into them, having read it somewhere else. I was going to go down that route of testing if I hadn't stayed pregnant this time.

Hello Olives, glad you are trying not to get too stressed about the TTC. Have a large glass of vino for us!

Hello merc too, glad you're going to be the same as me re not having anything sorted for the baby! Hey, people have babies in caves and manage ok... we will get there.

Well, Euro 2012 has kicked off which means a few weeks of football in this house. DH went to the shop to get himself some beers and a large bottle of orange squash for me. Hope everyone has good weekends! xx

oops, yes, I did mean Dr Trevor Wing! Thanks, Ari.

Sorry your erpc has been delayed Echo

thanks ladies - you've all been so welcoming, encouraging and kind. Am reading all of your posts with such interest - you know so much!

frustratingly the hospital have delayed the ERPC so have to wait until Monday now :0(

Brownie congratulations - such inspiring news. And Amelia is the name of my angel so I agree - beautiful name! Thank you for giving people like me hope! Enjoy getting to know each other

Will continue to read and then post a bit more actively when I've seen Dr S.

2 things I was wondering about are how common is it to mc on the plan (just wondering as not sure if I could go through it again so soon) and also wondering if he tells you to wait before TTC or whether it is green light as soon as you know the plan?

My head is just spinning from it all to be honest.

Hope you are all keeping well and those with bumps they are cooking nicely

xxx

belly if you mean Dr Trevor Wing, that's the chap, and that's the alternative suggested to me. It's his treatment plan of three types of mushroom and two herbs that I'll be using - see the 'mycology' section 14.3 of Agate's excellent FAQ: www.fertilityfriends.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=242395.msg3904730#msg3904730

Ari do you mind saying what the alternative to the pred is? I would be interested to know too as pred didn't agree with me. I may have mentioned this before but Trevor Bird, who specialises in Chinese medicine as well as conventional therapies, also recommends a mushroom supplement to keep the NK cells at bay. I don't know what it is called unfortunately but it definitely sounds more natural than the 'roids.

Interestingly someone on another thread (the 10 months+ one) was mentioning that the only time she has got a BFP she was taking antibiotics. It stuck in my mind because of all the infection fertility talk on this thread.

Well always one to try something out, I've been trying to find an alternative to the prednisolone for tackling my NKCs since I'm worried that although stopping the pred seems to have put my AFs back to normal, it means I'm leaving my body wide open to NKCs killing off an embryo. I've had an alternative suggested to tackle the NKCs from the resident guru on the FF website, and although they're £££ I am going to try them out for a few months to see what happens. I think that, as she suggested, my hormonal system is just too sensitive to the steroids, so I need to find a different approach, at least until I get a firm BFP. Assuming I ever do. Fingers crossed this works!

Big congratulations to brownie! Amelia is a gorgeous name.

Massive congratulations Brownie lovely news!
Echo Welcome to the thread, I hope you are recovering ok and have lots of RL support and cuddles
Big hello to all the other ladies, I am lurking more than posting at the mo to try and stop obsessing about ttc so much! Not sure its working but its worth a try and

Many congratulations Brownie

Free I completely forgot it was your anniversary to this week!! So sorry am obviously being to preoccupied by the ttc/pregnancy thing!! Did you do something nice? Always thinks its lovely that we both ended up getting married where we grew up. :)

Sue all this signs sound promising, I can imagine how you are feeling about the scan!!

belly High FSH doesn't have any correlation to the quality of your eggs, it just means that your body is working harder to produce eggs in the first place. So rest your mind on that one :)

cheerful thanks for that. So if I am found to have one of these infections DP doesn't have to be tested, just take the pills. That's good! :)

Congrats Brownie! Beautiful name :-)

Ari - I didn't have the other tests, only ureaplasma but I asked a few times and they were adamant there was no need for DH to be tested either the first or second time. All he had to do was take the anti biotics. I can't remember if it was a 3 or 6 week course each time. I wrote it down though, so I can check if you like. I also seem to remember that when I read the leaflet with the antibiotics it mentioned they were used for a whole range of things and I am sure Chlamidiya (as well as a few other nasty ones like that!) were mentioned.

I wonder if there is something in the antibiotic theory. I have just remembered that my friend who is now about 24 wks pregnant after 3 mcs last year had been taking a lot of antibiotics for a bad ear infection immediately prior to conceiving this time. Interesting. (although she also did Dr S's steroids from just after BFP too)

Yeay, Brownie. Fantastic news about the safe arrival of Amelia. So glad for your happy ending after all the heartache.

Snoopy great to hear from you. You sound as though you are being so brave.

Duggs your test results are so interesting, if a strong dose of antibiotics helps things along then that will be great.

Happy anniversary Free and Pebbles (and your respective DHs!). Enjoy Paris, Pebbles.

Sue don't blame you for testing frequently, we can definitely all sympathise with how it feels waiting for the scan. I am keeping everything crossed for you.

Echo hope today went as well as can be and so sorry to hear of your losses. The success stories do keep coming on here though, it is what keeps me going.

Saw Mr Gafar today Mr S away spending his holiday fund and my fsh rubbish again (16.4) but first month on SO and have 3 good sized follicles and womb lining 9.4mm which is good. Am worried that the high FSH will mean rubbish eggs but so pleased my womb lining is thicker. Will have to see what happens...

Waves to anyone I've forgotten.

Huge congratulations brownie!!!! 7lbs is a very respectable weight - just goes to show how wrong the growth scans can be about predicting birth weight. Welcome to the world baby Amelia!

Come join us on the post-natal thread. The first few days/weeks can be daunting (as well as exhilarating), be nice to stay in touch and see how you get on. Want to link but F is v grizzly after his jabs so must put phone down.

Brownie Huge Congratulations - what pretty names. So pleased all went well with the c-section. I felt a bit cheated the first time round, but to be honest will elect for the same this time - I think people can put enormous pressure on us to conform to their perception of 'normal'.

Enjoy this special time with your little one!!! Speedy recovery.

Snoopy So pleased you popped in and let us know your news. Pleased to hear that it hadn't spread and that you're dealing with the chemo ok, the cap sounds particularly unpleasant but you are one hell of a spunky lady to keep so perky! Do keep us all updated. Thinking of you!

Duggs so pleased you appear to have found something that may be the source of the problems. FC that you'll be fine next time after the treatment.

Echo welcome, and so sorry to hear what you've been through. I hope the ERPC wasn't too bad and that the hospital treated you gently. Positive that you are going to see Mr S and hopefully he will be able to offer you some hope. I went to see him after my ERPC at the end of September and I am now 25 weeks - so there are sometimes some positive outcomes. Fc the same will hold true for you. I was desperate to get to the bottom of things and at least you will have the results of any test back within 2 weeks.

PQ I'm also struggling a bit this time to feel the lo moving. But I think its due to an anterior placenta, so any movements are extremely low down. Not quite the aerobatics of my dd.

I'm going to be in the same boat as you free re: purchases. I think I've mentioned before i was so paranoid I left everything until the last 4-6 weeks before. Although I think I did start buying the odd thing around week 30 but kept all the tags on until the last minute. Even the steriliser was boxed and dh had to unbox it the night we got home at 2am - not to be recommended! ;)

Sue hope you're managing to hang in until the scan - hell why is it so stressful, but hopefully not long to go now.

Waves to everyone else.

Aw, congrats Brownie.

Woohoo brownie and mr brownie!! So very happy to hear of the safe arrival of little Amelia, and well done you for posting from your hospital bed, thank you for letting us know it all went so well! Now take it easy, recover quickly and enjoy your new bundle of joy :)

Hmm Lucky number 7 eh ... that means I have one more MC to go. Well, get on with it body .. :)

pebbles Have a really great time in Paris, relax and enjoy yourself!

sue You're not mad at all, I am certain we all understand the compulsion to keep checking. As I've said before, if only we could all go get hCG tests as easily as they do in the US, it would hugely help our peace of mind! Hang in there, your symptoms are sounding good!