Children being allowed to go to the toilet at school

It sounds as if she's self managing well.

I can only say, when I grew up, in the 80s we pretty much raised ourselves. Our parents were working and we used to let ourselves in after school, we had to do housework, get dinner in the oven, we would go out with our friends and because nobody had mobiles we went where we liked. Yes we got into mischief, but we had a maturity that is lacking today because we were trusted. We weren't mollycoddled and micro managed every step of the way. Times have changed dramatically, but parents doing everything for their kids and treating them like precious babies that can do no wrong isn't helping them grow, think for themselves and have accountability for their actions. So I don't think I am wrong, but I think the problem runs very deep and how to turn things around now, I do not know.

That's really sad, but also infuriating! Seems like the parents need an education let alone the children. Where did we go wrong? I'm sorry you have to put up with that. While I still believe a child should be able to decide when they need the toilet, this thread has been an eye opener. I knew it was bad, but not this bad. I can see that there isn't much choice other than to lock the toilets and isn't that awful?!

We now keep free sanpro in a cupboard, which is locked, but we still want to help girls in period poverty. Most students are fine, they just want to do their best and have friends.
However, there's a significant group, and I'm going to say, MC, who are very entitled because the parents think that the rules should be altered for their child. They appear supportive, but will not tolerate a detention, or a delay for their child wanting the toilet.

I'm going to give an example of where the toilet monitoring actually helped. A girl in my year 10 class asked to go, she is very well behaved, so I let her. Then she began to ask each lesson, and was asking every teacher, every day, so it was flagged up.
She turned out to have quite a severe medical problem. However, her Mum didn't speak English, and culturally they were reserved about female medical problems. We were able to sort out an appointment with a chaperone supporter/translator.

I'm an ex teacher, this is how a brand new school building solved the toilet issues, a secondary academy.
The toilets were located off a corridor, no doors on the entrance, just a wide opening from the corridor with a view of rows of toilets, with floor to ceiling walls and doors, either side with a row of sinks back to back in the centre. And most importantly, video cameras recording activity in the central area. Students were not allowed to go into toilet cubicles together, the cameras monitored who went in and out, left row of toilets female, right row male. The other thing was there were no separate staff toilets, so staff would also go in there to use the facilities too. There were no mirrors. There were never any behaviour issues in the toilets as whatever happened in the communal area was captured by the security cameras. Students went to the toilet in class time if they needed to.
A design that prevented misbehaviour as there were video cameras all over the school.

Hard disagree. Not being mollycoddled and micro-managed is not the same as "bringing yourself up".

@gardenflowergirl- I've been in a school with that arrangement, and it seems to solve a lot of problems, not least the vaping and the bullying. I think they're harder to vandalise as well.
If only there was the funding to put them in every school!

Omg I’ve never heard of anything so ridiculous.Were humans not robots. You should report them to the human rights ministry,or whoever.You don’t need to have to go to the doctors for evidence they may send her for more investigation which can be very traumatic for a child , there’s nothing wrong with her. I remember that I’d have to poo more around my monthlys. What about all the girls who may flood and need to rush to the toilets,the rules are appalling.it’s very normal for many humans to poo more than once a day some only go once a week. To have to hold your poo and wees is very bad and can cause serious problems. If she needs to go then she has to go. I’m appalled that the school has these rules. I really feel for you both especially dd

That sounds like a great solution, there's no incentive to get out of lesson if you know you'll be monitored and you can't do anything wrong without it being flagged up instantly. Hopefully it will be designed like this in all future school buildings

I don't think any medical evidence should be necessary. It's a basic human right to have access to toilet facilities. Anyway, it seems that it goes against them even If they have a pass. What on earth happens if a girl starts a period in class? Would they have to prove it was 28 days since the last one?
If the school have a problem with discipline around toilet breaks, they should deal with that, not make weeing, pooing or having an unexpected bleed into a disciplinary issue.

Going to the toilet isn't a medical issue or a behaviour one. It's normal and sometimes unpredictable.

I understand your OP is trying to cover all of the specifics, but it's not especially relevant and certainly not that a log is made.

If a child has a toilet pass, they're being allowed out of class regularly. Not only does that need monitoring over time, school must know when a child isn't in the allocated classroom. If there was an evacuation or a lockdown while not where she was registered with her teacher, someone would need to be aware for safety.

I’m with you but how do you suggest they police the toilets when schools are stripped down to the bare minimum funding where they are sacking otf TAs lunchtime supervisors etc to help fund basic teacher wages? There is no money in the system and zero respect for authority from some children who ruin the experience for everyone else.

I just think if kids need the toilet it shouldn’t be stopped or difficult - yes give them a pass or whatever but don’t penalise the kids who are genuine there’s always going to be people taking liberties. If the kids misbehave punish them not everyone else. I don’t know how to prevent problems but I do know a head teacher spoke about this once and basically said it’s unhealthy stopping kids going the toilet and unlocked them. If there not out of bounds maybe the kids wouldn’t abuse the system.

I am a teacher and I find it weird. We are told not to let kids go but I let them anyway. They do have to get a toilet key. Of course the other side of it is that wandering about doing nothing during lessons and constantly asking out for the toilet are huge problems in schools. So go to the doctors and ask for a letter to get the pass. The school are being ridiculous though, given that you are her parent. I suppose you must be in England? It seems like schools have too much control there.

But that's just it. You dont know how to prevent problems. Actually teachers DO know, but aren't given the funding or powers to do it. Again, tje issue is not that schools hate kids, are power mad or like to cause distress. We'd bloody love if all the students just went to toilet and came out again like normal people, but they don't. The reasons for that are, as a pp said, much much wider, societal and complex. And we can't just punish the villains because a) it doesn't stop them b) the ££££ damage is done c) we get push back from parents.

Imagine if we treated people at work like this. We treating kids like they are criminals in prison.

I am a teacher and I think this is AWFUL. My child has also just started year 7 and they told me a story this week of a child they were sat next to that was not allowed to go to the toilet and needed a pass. I was under the impression teachers should issue the pass when asked!!!! The child was very uncomfortable and my child told me how bad they felt for them. I just think it’s disgusting, especially for teenage girls just beginning to navigate periods. I have told my daughter to ignore these rules and if she needs to go, go. I will deal with the consequences afterwards!!!
sorry/ I know this doesn’t help but surely it is not necessary to get a toilet pass. I would be challenging as a parent.

OP apologies if I am repeating what has already been said but I became furious before I got to the end of the first page.
I am a teacher and have never refused a request for a student to go to the toilet. The lack of toilets in secondary schools is outrageous considering most schools have between 1500 and 2000 students. I always write a note for kids noting the time and what classroom they are coming from. Saying no as an adult to a child that is obviously desperate for the loo is a health and safety risk in my opinion.
of course there are a few character who will take the pi** but they are few and far between.

Where I work, we don't have notes. It's a centralised system, each visit is logged - it's not a negative behaviour point, but to triangulate where there has been vandalism, vaping, bullying and assaults. The students know this, and incidents have reduced.
I always let students go if it seems genuine (especially girls) and then I tune out the 5 others immediately asking, and the parental emails accusing me of favouritism.
I don't believe I've ever been reported to the Ministry of Human Rights, though 😉

Again, adults at work not generally pissing on walls, shitting on seats, ripping cisterns off walls, ramming all sorts down the toilets...stop comparing. The two scenarios are totally different.

A minority of kids might be the type who do this. They would be children with problems making themselves unsuitable for mainstream school.

No, they're in mainstream schools. As are the ones who vape.

As a classroom teacher I just want to get on with my work. I don't make the rules about toilet access. The high ups do that. I don't appreciate it when I have to argue with a child or a parent for enforcing those rules nor do I enjoy it when using my judgement I allow a child to go out and then have to justify that with a member of SLT who has found out that I disobeyed their directive. If you want to argue about this take it up with the SLT. Ordinary teachers have no time for these debates.

Oh and the same thing goes for uniform, coats on off lunch boxes water in classroom etc etc.