Children being allowed to go to the toilet at school

You have met schools like this?
Any reason why you got through lots of schools?

Thank you @DaisyJohnson . But the non teachers on this thread dont want to hear any of that. To be fair, my school is nowhere near at that level but last year we had 4 year 10 boys cause thousands of damage to some toilets. They were out of action for a week. They reopened and were damaged to the same extent WITHIN AN HOUR.

I'm gonna elaborate on your point a bit.

I understand that "why punish the good kids for the behaviour of the hooligans?" makes perfect sense to some people, so let me give you an example. I'm going to use four renamed children as an example.

I was teaching Year 7, and I noticed that the really kind and friendly Susie Jones was acting oddly scared. I looked out of the window and saw Jacob Brown and Johnny Smith in Year 9 looking in from outside, making gestures towards her. This continued for a while, including them shouting into the room. In the end I locked the door, hid her, and sent for on call to come and help. It turns out that Susie reported Jacob for misbehaving on the bus and for several days they had been arranging a time to get out of lessons, find Susie, and scare the living hell out of her through classroom windows and sometimes by booting the door open and throwing stuff at her.

Some context here: The school tried to have Johnny permanently excluded the year before but it was overturned by the local authority's independent review on account of the fact that he was too smart to go without education for the time it would take him to find a new school.

The next day we got an email from SLT telling us to never, under any circumstances, allow Jacob or Johnny to leave the classroom. Later that day I had Johnny in my class. I noticed Jacob lurking out of my classroom window. Then, Johnny loudly shouted "I'm desperate, let me go to the toilet". I said no.

A few minutes later little Maya Johnson came to me and whispered that she had started her period and needed to go to the toilet. She is absolutely a delightful student so I trusted that she needed to go. I whispered to her to pretend that she was collecting something from another classroom for me, and told her to go - but she had to get pads out of her bag first, and of course, Johnny noticed.

Over the course of the next 20 minutes, Johnny began YELLING "I WANT THE TOILET I WANT THE TOILET I WANT THE TOILET LET ME OUT I WANT THE TOILET I WANT THE TOILET". I sent for on call but on call was busy dealing with Jacob and several others. Johnny then degenerated into hurling abuse at me. "I WANT THE TOILET, LET ME OUT, SIGN THE LOG YOU STUPID F-ING GINGER C" at me, and variations of the same.

When I refused to react and just waited for on call, he turned his attention to poor little Maya Johnson. Since she'd been allowed to go, he turned his rage onto her and began insulting and mocking her. At this point I asked Johnny to go into the classroom next door (for Maya's sake). He refused. To try to save Maya I even told him fine, go to the toilet, even though I knew that meant that he would seek out poor Susie. He kept hurling abuse at Maya, so I escorted Maya to the door, removed poor Maya from the classroom, and told her to go to a specific other teacher, then had to stand in the doorway to block Johnny from following her.

"Keep the naughty ones in the classroom and let the nice ones go" doesn't work, either. It just turns the teacher and the nice students into targets for the rage of the naughty ones.

I don't know why our society is like this. I never witnessed anything like this while I was at school. But this kind of behaviour is commonplace across the country now. I don't know how to resolve it other than campaign for more funding for schools so that we can afford to pay for full time toilet monitors and escorts. But when we campaign for better funding, all we hear is "lazy teachers are overpaid and already have too much time off".

These policies would have really stressed me out as a child. I have a fairly active bladder but also, as soon as I know there is no toilet available I need to go more. I’ve been like it my whole life, even now I check new places I visit will have toilet access before going, even if I probably wouldn’t need to use it.

We had to ask to use the toilet when I was at school but there were always plenty and most of them unlocked, except a few on the upper floors which were locked outside of lunchtime.

You've literally just restated the exact problem we have. You want anyone who really needs it to be allowed to go. But you dont want constant free access. How are teachers meant to work that? Yes we basically do know who the idiots are but how do you actually justify that when three kids ask and you say yes to one and no to two more? You set off a chain of timewasting argument and potential conflict when you're supposed to be explaining a concept, going round helping etc.

I think any child needing the toilet should be able to go ,I say this as a parent of a child who when in year 7 wet themselves in class as he was refused. But there should not be constant free access , I say this as a person who works in a school sees the amount of children constantly out of lessons , sees the damage done day in day out to the toilets , the anti social behavior that goes on . And the eye watering bills that are being paid to fix toilets.
The schools are treading a fine line between human dignity and maintaining a safe environment for all.

There are a lot of children who take the piss , can’t hold there bladder for over an hour while in lessons but can manage to play sports , travel to school on a bus , go on school trips with no access to toilet for longer.

Except the school haven't demanded medical records. Theyve said if you don't want to provide a GP letter, a copy of the notes are fine. Which some people will be happy to provide a print out of a specific consultation rather than arrange a GP letter, as sometimes you have to pay for GP letters. Would you expect to apply for a Blue Badge without providing any medical information?

Some schools think they can demand whatever they like. Sweet, really.
OK, it's not.

Medical records are strictly confidential between the individual and their care provider. A school is not entitled to insist on sharing medical records simply to grant a toilet pass. Even courts cannot insist on medical records themselves when looking for proof of something, instead asking for a letter from GP.

I've met schools like this. I found it's easier to smile and just involve the surgery who are happy to handle the overreach.

Your child sounds like they need a medical assessment anyway and possibly some help in navigating the situation. I would ask your GP to write a suitably brief letter, leaving them in no doubt about the support the school was required to extend to your child without further interference in their privacy.

I'm sure they would be welcome to call the surgery if they needed any appropriate clarification. If your GP won't write a letter, you need another GP.

You'd be surprised, it does happen in workplaces too sometimes.

So they are making themselves unsuitable for mainstream schools. Not those just vaping though

There are non SEND children who are making themselves unsuitable for mainstream schooling if this is happening. If they out themselves on social media they can be dealt with appropriately

I would doubt that it is legal for the school to have a child's medical notes - are they not confidential?

No one is blaming the SEN kids. But only those with EHCPs have a TA with them. So yes plenty of SEN kids are as guilty as non SEN kids.

So there's bad behaviour that's not SEN. These non SEN kids misbehaving are in schools with strict rules about uniform, going to the loo and forgetting your pencil but somehow we can't identify and deal with more serious stuff properly. So that's schools getting something wrong, it seems. Additionally, numerous threads on here with parents supporting holidays in term time which is condoning truancy. What a weird world we live in, it seems.

But hold on, I have DC that were in secondary years in 2024 and the experience was totally different. Thankful for that and also that I'm in a position to never have heard about this experience elsewhere than on MN.

Former teacher here. I am sympathetic to anyone with any kind of digestive complaint - adult or child - and recognise time is of the essence when an attack hits.

But control around toilet breaks and classroom absence is not solely predicated around that. To ignore the fact that - given the chance - some pupils will (mis)use the toilet for nefarious purposes, fag breaks and classroom avoidance - is naïve. If a teacher (or teachers in general) are informed of a condition or an ailment, then of course they will be sympathetic. But then you hit the issue of pupils asking why can SHE go to the toilet but not me ? Do you then inform said pupil that the other pupil has a digestive complaint ?

There is no right answer here.

Disregulated kids being followed around by their TAs are not the ones trashing the toilets to the tune of three to eight grand a pop with their mates, having made excuses that they're really, really desperate to go to the toilet ten minutes into the start of the lesson at exactly the same time their friends are doing exactly the same thing with their teachers.

Why do people seem to want to blame the worst behaviour upon the more vulnerable kids rather than anybody else?

Parents would be the first to complain if they werent considered as having SEN, but regardless, the children I work with who do have challenging behaviour which is distructivbe twithin school are either already with an EhCP, or in the process for one, or need one or are on the pathway for assessment for SEN.

Lots and lots of exclusions with lots of schools unable to meet need but often unable to find an alternative, plodding on, unable to fully permanently exclude, PRU places have all been used up, round and round it goes

I just dont know why there is such a desire (on here) to ignore what teachers and professionals are working with every day and seemingly pretend any non SEN child is more likely to be destructive than a child with SEN. That isnt the case.

SEN pupils often have time out/ reset cards.
Plenty of these pupils spend most of the day walking round school, refusing to engage with their TA. And yes, a lot escape to the bathrooms.

Most schools add all children with behavioural issues to the SEN register BECAUSE of their behaviour. It usually gets added under SEMH or similar. Therefore, 100% of children with behavioural problems will be logged as SEND because the fact that they have behavioural problems is enough to put them on the register.

Im a statutory front line worker for children and families and I see this day in and day out unfortunately.

Bollocks.

It's not the kids with SEND that are the issue, no matter how much parents would like to claim that it is.

You're deluded if you believe this. All of these students are in mainstream.

No one is saying they are all hooligans. But those of us with experience of managing 1000+ teens all in one place at the same time have reluctantly had to take these steps to try and preserve working toilet facilities for all. Sorry if that upsets you. In reality, in lots of schools, most of us will absolutely let most kids pop quickly, especially girls, or will not discipline for being a few minutes late after break if there was a queue. In the ops case, there is a solution for her child's needs, she just hadn't taken it yet.

Ok fucked up you win kids to be stopped from going the toilet because they are all hooligans.

This makes no difference in most schools. It doesn't prevent the problem, it just allows you to identify and punish the student who did it. Some students actively want to be excluded because when they are their parents pamper them, buy them treats and give them the days to play on their xbox. So a child who wants some time off school can revel in destroying a toilet block, knowing the school will have no choice but exclude them when they look at the cameras.